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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 22, 2017 10:59:44 GMT -5
Now Jim Bowden is saying that the deal for Cole to the Yankees is very close on the MLB Network Sirius station. I take most of what that guy says with a grain of salt though as he seems to be wrong much more often than he is right.
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Post by jdb on Dec 22, 2017 11:04:23 GMT -5
Maybe its me but I don't like Cole that much and if they are trading for a cost controlled guy I'm glad it's him. He had one very good year and is above average but I'd be willing to bet Fraizer has a better season next year.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 22, 2017 11:17:53 GMT -5
1B market again, aka whither Hosmer?
The Mariners took a LHB 1B, Mike Ford, from the Yankees in the Rule 5, and he looks like the (non-strict) platoon partner for Ryon Healy. So they're out.
By all reports the Royals would much rather have the draft pick than get Hosmer back. They'd want someone on a 1-year deal that they could trade for prospects at the deadline. The Mets reportedly want to do the same thing to get Dominic Smith more AAA time. So one of those teams seems likely to sign Duda for a year, and the other to take a flyer on Adrian Gonzalez.
It still seems hard to believe that the Angels, after upgrading with Ohtani, Cozart, and Kinsler, will settle for C.J. Cron, Pujols, and Ohtani (who only DH'd twice a week in Japan) at 1B and DH. They can still sign Logan Morrison and stay under the cap. They're already the clear favorites for the second WC, but that would really strengthen their position.
Hosmer? The Astros seem to have money to spend, and they could move Gurriel to DH, which I thought they'd be looking to upgrade. The Twins could make a major run at a WC spot by signing him and moving Mauer to DH for the last year of his contract -- even though he's turned himself into a very good defender there, he's hit better at DH since his conversion, so you may recover some of that wasted value. They definitely have the money to spend, perhaps $30M -- but they need a SP and reliever more pressingly. A top-half of rotation starter would be a much bigger upgrade.
And finally the Rockies could decide that Hosmer is good enough to block Ryan McMahon, but they need to save money to extend Arrenado.
Given that Hosmer's intangibles seem real, the Twins might be the best bet, but only as a backup plan if they get shut out of the SP they're chasing. And the market remains so weak that there seems to be no chance of him getting the deal he wants. You could see him signing for just one year (in which case I believe the Royals get no pick) ... and in fact the Royals could bring him back on a 1-year deal for the QO amount or a bit higher, and hope he has another great season, in which case he should get more at the deadline in prospects than the value of the pick they're hoping to get. I think that's the likeliest outcome.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 22, 2017 11:26:08 GMT -5
Omar Minaya named special assistant to the GM of the New York Mess. Unreal.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 22, 2017 12:14:12 GMT -5
I know he was plagued by a huge homerun spike as James mentioned in the Red Sox off-season thread, but the guy gave up nearly a hit a inning while giving up 55 walks on top of that last year. 55 walks in 203 innings is straight-up good. A 1.251 WHIP is totally solid... especially from a player whose HR/FB rate can reasonably be expected to fall. It was 27th best in baseball among qualified starters, so pretty comfortably in #3 starter range. And again, that was in a season when he was unlucky. Turning eight of those homers back into outs gets him back under 1.20. I can't imagine his luck getting better in the AL East, especially with half his games in a little league stadium.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 22, 2017 12:19:07 GMT -5
That's... not what luck is, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
Any right-handed pitcher, even a good one, will give up homers in Yankee Stadium. That doesn't make them unlucky or bad. He's probably a park-neutral 3.50 ERA guy, and like a 3.85 in Yankee Stadium. That has a ton of value, and for a team that has the farm system to pull it off then there's a match there. Again, you don't do Torres for it, and you wince at Sheffield, but Frazier? Especially a team with that depth? Hell yes.
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Post by swingingbunt on Dec 22, 2017 12:36:43 GMT -5
Now Jim Bowden is saying that the deal for Cole to the Yankees is very close on the MLB Network Sirius station. I take most of what that guy says with a grain of salt though as he seems to be wrong much more often than he is right. I've never known Ralph to mess up a story.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 22, 2017 12:46:35 GMT -5
Josh Rutledge has moved on to the Giants on a minor league deal. Who cares?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 22, 2017 13:03:41 GMT -5
Omar Minaya named special assistant to the GM of the New York Mess. Unreal. It's a very dark form of deja vu all over - or maybe all under - again. Newsday ran a story about the Mets and the Wilpon's, and it sounds completely seat-of-the-pants at this point. Alderson, the nominal GM, doesn't even seem to know how much money he has to spend. Maybe Minaya can tell him where all the bodies are buried, since he buried a lot of those all by himself. The fact that MLB is willing to stomach this sort of "ownership", never mind what's going on in Miami and how Jeter and partners are treating the Marlins like a vehicle to be stripped and sold off for parts, speaks so badly about the old-boy MLB network that it stinks to skies.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 22, 2017 15:08:07 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 22, 2017 15:22:00 GMT -5
It's my opinion based on Cashman sagacity in trades even over the past two years. He has built a top farm, given next to nothing for Stanton, unloaded Headly, re-acquired prior outstanding BP personnel, cut salary to get under the luxury tax, will be poised to go after an interested Harper, yada, yada. Now if you think that Cole is overrated, then that makes giving up top prospects even less likely. DD, in contrast, has given up lots of prospects (maybe he had to) to get trades consummated sooner rather than later. I give the Yankees great credit for the job they have done in short order. Cashman is a good GM, but he's also the guy that signed Ellsbury, Igawa, and has spent the last what 14 years in mediocrity while seeing only one world series appearance? I mean every dog has it's day. Took them long enough to get back to being a real threat. yeah brother! Come quick with it, now!! We need to leave the Cashman praise at the door. F him and the MFY.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 22, 2017 15:24:30 GMT -5
Omar Minaya named special assistant to the GM of the New York Mess. Unreal. Oh My. Why?
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Post by p23w on Dec 22, 2017 19:33:03 GMT -5
That's... not what luck is, and I'm pretty sure you know that. Any right-handed pitcher, even a good one, will give up homers in Yankee Stadium. That doesn't make them unlucky or bad. He's probably a park-neutral 3.50 ERA guy, and like a 3.85 in Yankee Stadium. That has a ton of value, and for a team that has the farm system to pull it off then there's a match there. Again, you don't do Torres for it, and you wince at Sheffield, but Frazier? Especially a team with that depth? Hell yes. If you're the Pirates you have Meadows.... and don't need Frazier. You stick to your original request for Torres. Cole on the NYY's scares the p*** out of me.
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Post by wrangler713 on Dec 22, 2017 22:14:44 GMT -5
It's my opinion based on Cashman sagacity in trades even over the past two years. He has built a top farm, given next to nothing for Stanton, unloaded Headly, re-acquired prior outstanding BP personnel, cut salary to get under the luxury tax, will be poised to go after an interested Harper, yada, yada. Now if you think that Cole is overrated, then that makes giving up top prospects even less likely. DD, in contrast, has given up lots of prospects (maybe he had to) to get trades consummated sooner rather than later. I give the Yankees great credit for the job they have done in short order. Cashman is a good GM, but he's also the guy that signed Ellsbury, Igawa, and has spent the last what 14 years in mediocrity while seeing only one world series appearance? I mean every dog has it's day. Took them long enough to get back to being a real threat. You can't blame Ellsbury on Cashman or Igawa. He didn't want either of those players. Their upper management signed those guys, some guy who is above cashman making moves. cashman has made mistakes, but when he is in full control, hes the best GM in baseball. Every time the Yankees make any type of move I'm scared.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2017 22:31:04 GMT -5
Cashman is a good GM, but he's also the guy that signed Ellsbury, Igawa, and has spent the last what 14 years in mediocrity while seeing only one world series appearance? I mean every dog has it's day. Took them long enough to get back to being a real threat. You can't blame Ellsbury on Cashman or Igawa. He didn't want either of those players. Their upper management signed those guys, some guy who is above cashman making moves. cashman has made mistakes, but when he is in full control, hes the best GM in baseball. Every time the Yankees make any type of move I'm scared. Exactly. Some of these responses reek of I love the Red Sox/hate the Yankees, therefore Cashman sucks. If you've been watching Cashman closely he's made a lot of astute deals over the past few years. It's not like he was stupid for a dozen years and then got lucky. He's had a lot of interference to deal with - the Yankees have been a lot more stable with Hal Steinbrenner running the show rather than his brother or his father or his father's cronies. These kinds of things matter. If they didn't then Theo might still be the GM of the Red Sox today. For the record the Yankees consistently win 57% of their games. And they have managed to avoid being bad (something that big market teams like the Red Sox couldn't avoid doing in 3 of 4 seasons although that in-between season was miraculous) and still rebuild for the future. The new playoff system makes it harder to win Championships the way they used to, but the way the Yankees are being built I'd expect them to find success in the upcoming seasons. That's the way I felt when Theo was in charge. Dombrowski will have the Sox very competitive over the next two seasons but beyond that they are a big question mark, and if the farm system isn't percolating by then they could be in very big trouble. The Red Sox got off to a good start rebuilding the system but tragically they lost their most promising prospect from the signing class of 2017.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 22, 2017 23:21:44 GMT -5
Cashman is a good GM, but he's also the guy that signed Ellsbury, Igawa, and has spent the last what 14 years in mediocrity while seeing only one world series appearance? I mean every dog has it's day. Took them long enough to get back to being a real threat. You can't blame Ellsbury on Cashman or Igawa. He didn't want either of those players. Their upper management signed those guys, some guy who is above cashman making moves. cashman has made mistakes, but when he is in full control, hes the best GM in baseball. Every time the Yankees make any type of move I'm scared. Okay when the Yankees sign a bad contract it's upper management's fault and whenever there's a good move it was Cashman's idea. Come on dude, are you listening to yourself? Theo Epstein is the best in baseball today. He built 2 different organizations from the ground up and won 4 titles.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 23, 2017 0:38:09 GMT -5
You can't blame Ellsbury on Cashman or Igawa. He didn't want either of those players. Their upper management signed those guys, some guy who is above cashman making moves. cashman has made mistakes, but when he is in full control, hes the best GM in baseball. Every time the Yankees make any type of move I'm scared. Okay when the Yankees sign a bad contract it's upper management's fault and whenever there's a good move it was Cashman's idea. Come on dude, are you listening to yourself? Theo Epstein is the best in baseball today. He built 2 different organizations from the ground up and won 4 titles. Right, and where have I heard this before? When it's a bad contract, it's Larry Lucchino's fault and when it's a good move it's Theo's idea. The reality is that both Theo and Cashman had to deal with higher-ups, some of whom they clashed with philosophically. In Seth Mnookin's book Feeding the Monster, it tells the story of how Lucchino wanted to market the 2006 Red Sox as serious contenders while Theo felt it was a year in which they'd take a step backwards so they could take two steps forward in the future. As you recall Theo left the organization in a gorilla suit as he as Lucchino didn't see eye-to-eye. Then there was the "Red Sox are not sexy enough" meeting and "The Bridge Year" comment Theo gave that made Lucchino cringe. Then there was the response of giving up Anthony Rizzo along with Casey Kelly for Adrian Gonzalez and the Carl Crawford signing. Theo didn't have the autonomy that Dombrowski now enjoys - and I'll back up it's not complete autonomy - in DD's case he answers to John Henry and Tom Werner. In Theo's case he answered to Lucchino who was slightly below Henry and Werner - and you notice DD doesn't answer to Sam Kennedy who has the same function Lucchino had. Now Theo is more of a decision maker as he left the organization so he could have more autonomy in Chicago where he only answers to Ricketts. With the Red Sox, Theo was always trying to balance the win now vs win later philosophy. Lucchino always wanted pedal to the medal because he knew he couldn't really market an 85 win team. So now Theo has gone to Chicago and has built a World Champion from the ground up. To be fair, Teho didn't build the Sox from the ground up necessarily - he did inherit some wonderful talent from Duquette but he was able to finish off that 2004 team the way Duquette never could. Likewise, Theo left a good core and a good farm system for Ben Cherington who was also part of building that core, but it was Cherington's successful bargain basement shopping that put the 2013 Red Sox over the top. Likewise Cashman didn't enjoy the autonomy that he enjoys now. He dealt with George's impulses/whims. George had his Tampa cronies who did a great job messing up that farm system. Kei Igawa was the Daisuke response, a knee jerk response to get some of the Japanese market share. I highly doubt Cashman wanted to bring back A-Rod for 10 years in 2008. When George passed on his Tampa cronies still had power and Hank Steinbrenner was highly visible and he was gumming up the works. Hal put him on a leash and now lets Cashman do his job without interference from anybody but Hal. And that's a gamechanger. You think Cashman didn't notice how Theo was operating last decade? Cashman knows if you build a farm system, don't trade them away, limit free agent mistakes, with his budget there's no reason he can't build a powerhouse. That's what Theo was working on with the Red Sox as 2007-2008 was his best shining example, an expensive team infused with a young core. I'm not telling you that Cashman is brighter than Theo, but he's a damn good GM. Since Hal has taken over the Yankees have become an excellent team. They passed the Red Sox by on the analytics side, have made astute trades, and are well positioned for a long-term run at the top. They may not match the late 90s but the team they have is positioned to win multiple Championships over the next several years.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 23, 2017 3:06:10 GMT -5
Champs, I personally blame everyone equally. If a GM makes a dumb decision with money, I'm going to blame the GM.
There's very few instances where I see a owner stepping in and signing the player themselves. The only two good examples of this is the Prince Fielder contract in Detroit the Arod contract in New York.
I personally blame Cherrington for Pablo and Castillo, just like I blame Theo for Crawford.
It certainly couldn't of been Luchino's idea to stick Hanley in LF. It wasn't Luchino's fault that Theo had a private detective follow around Crawford for months because he was obsessed with the guy until the day he signed him. Maybe Cherrington should of asked the question "can this guy actually play baseball" after seeing Castillo's fantastic work outs.
I just can't see a owner stepping in and saying "alright the Sox found themselves a expensive Japanese ball player, go find me one too Cashman, I don't even care if his name is Igawa for crying out loud."
Cashman deserves all the blame and the credit for all personnel changes. That includes a bad contract like Ellsbury or a good contract like Sabathia. That's the way I view it. Everyone has their own opinion however and I'm not going to say you're wrong, especially on the Arod deal.
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Post by ryan24 on Dec 23, 2017 14:42:33 GMT -5
Champs, I personally blame everyone equally. If a GM makes a dumb decision with money, I'm going to blame the GM. There's very few instances where I see a owner stepping in and signing the player themselves. The only two good examples of this is the Prince Fielder contract in Detroit the Arod contract in New York. I personally blame Cherrington for Pablo and Castillo, just like I blame Theo for Crawford. It certainly couldn't of been Luchino's idea to stick Hanley in LF. It wasn't Luchino's fault that Theo had a private detective follow around Crawford for months because he was obsessed with the guy until the day he signed him. Maybe Cherrington should of asked the question "can this guy actually play baseball" after seeing Castillo's fantastic work outs. I just can't see a owner stepping in and saying "alright the Sox found themselves a expensive Japanese ball player, go find me one too Cashman, I don't even care if his name is Igawa for crying out loud." Cashman deserves all the blame and the credit for all personnel changes. That includes a bad contract like Ellsbury or a good contract like Sabathia. That's the way I view it. Everyone has their own opinion however and I'm not going to say you're wrong, especially on the Arod deal. How do you assess the situation with Dave and the flack he has taken for trading for Drew, Kimbrel, and Sale. Then signing Price? Seems somewhere in there Ben or Theo have to take the blame for the lack of pitching before Dave got there. Without that pitching at a high cost the sox would not have won 2 division champs.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 23, 2017 15:05:41 GMT -5
1B market again, aka whither Hosmer? The Mariners took a LHB 1B, Mike Ford, from the Yankees in the Rule 5, and he looks like the (non-strict) platoon partner for Ryon Healy. So they're out. By all reports the Royals would much rather have the draft pick than get Hosmer back. They'd want someone on a 1-year deal that they could trade for prospects at the deadline. The Mets reportedly want to do the same thing to get Dominic Smith more AAA time. So one of those teams seems likely to sign Duda for a year, and the other to take a flyer on Adrian Gonzalez. It still seems hard to believe that the Angels, after upgrading with Ohtani, Cozart, and Kinsler, will settle for C.J. Cron, Pujols, and Ohtani (who only DH'd twice a week in Japan) at 1B and DH. They can still sign Logan Morrison and stay under the cap. They're already the clear favorites for the second WC, but that would really strengthen their position. Hosmer? The Astros seem to have money to spend, and they could move Gurriel to DH, which I thought they'd be looking to upgrade. The Twins could make a major run at a WC spot by signing him and moving Mauer to DH for the last year of his contract -- even though he's turned himself into a very good defender there, he's hit better at DH since his conversion, so you may recover some of that wasted value. They definitely have the money to spend, perhaps $30M -- but they need a SP and reliever more pressingly. A top-half of rotation starter would be a much bigger upgrade. And finally the Rockies could decide that Hosmer is good enough to block Ryan McMahon, but they need to save money to extend Arrenado. Given that Hosmer's intangibles seem real, the Twins might be the best bet, but only as a backup plan if they get shut out of the SP they're chasing. And the market remains so weak that there seems to be no chance of him getting the deal he wants. You could see him signing for just one year (in which case I believe the Royals get no pick) ... and in fact the Royals could bring him back on a 1-year deal for the QO amount or a bit higher, and hope he has another great season, in which case he should get more at the deadline in prospects than the value of the pick they're hoping to get. I think that's the likeliest outcome. Of course I wrote that on the fly and ended up contradicting myself two different but offsetting ways. The Astros absolutely need a LH bat to share DH, and seem like a good fit for Duda (yeah, I stole that from ESPN). But if Hosmer goes back to the Royals, then they don't need him. So that would have the Mets taking a flyer on Gonzalez, hoping to deal him at the deadline and then give Dominic Smith his permanent chance. You could also see Morrison to the Astros and Duda to the Angels rather than vice versa.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 27, 2017 18:58:38 GMT -5
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Post by PedroKsBambino on Dec 29, 2017 10:54:51 GMT -5
@jeffpassan Source: Wade Davis has agreed to a deal with the Colorado Rockies. 10:45 AM · Dec 29, 2017
@jonheyman wade davis deal with rockies is for $52M over 3 years 10:55 AM · Dec 29, 2017
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 29, 2017 11:03:09 GMT -5
Passan just added there's a vesting option for $15M if he closes 30 games in 2020. Otherwise it's a mutual option with a $1M buyout (so that makes me think it's 17M per year for three years and the 52 number includes the buyout).
Everyone who was hoping to get a relief pitcher at a discount, note that Davis just signed for the highest per-year salary of any RP ever.
Notably, Colorado now adds Davis to a bullpen that includes Shaw ($7.5M), McGee, Dunn, and Ottavino (all $7M) and will cost just under $50M next year (over $45M just for those five). Normally, I'd hate that, but Colorado might be the one place where balling out for a potentially sick bullpen makes a ton of sense.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 29, 2017 11:22:53 GMT -5
@jeffpassan Source: Wade Davis has agreed to a deal with the Colorado Rockies. 10:45 AM · Dec 29, 2017 @jonheyman wade davis deal with rockies is for $52M over 3 years 10:55 AM · Dec 29, 2017 Look I know they were kinda good last year but my god the Rockies have no clue.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 29, 2017 11:38:59 GMT -5
Passan just added there's a vesting option for $15M if he closes 30 games in 2020. Otherwise it's a mutual option with a $1M buyout (so that makes me think it's 17M per year for three years and the 52 number includes the buyout). Everyone who was hoping to get a relief pitcher at a discount, note that Davis just signed for the highest per-year salary of any RP ever. Notably, Colorado now adds Davis to a bullpen that includes Shaw ($7.5M), McGee, Dunn, and Ottavino (all $7M) and will cost just under $50M next year (over $45M just for those five). Normally, I'd hate that, but Colorado might be the one place where balling out for a potentially sick bullpen makes a ton of sense. Only time will tell, we shall see. BUT 45 million for what maybe 300-350 innings pitched max? Leaving maybe 1200 innings to be pitched and all the position players along with 5500+ at bats to fill out the roster. Seems to me like probably 25% of the budget going towards what amounts to players who will be contributing maybe 2-3 innings pitched per game, hard to believe that is a winning formula. Just pulled that off the top of my head so I could be way off but the point is the same.
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