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2017 Red Sox Major League Spring Training Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 29, 2017 19:33:47 GMT -5
People here seem to be aignst against getting a player off waivers or going outside the organization for help. Even making a minor trade seems to upset some people here. I mean, we are talking about a long man in a bullpen and the 25th man in the roster. This is what waivers is for. No, I think people here get annoyed when you post "they should go get a guy off waivers or in a trade" and then don't have anyone actually in mind or when you do, it's someone like Pelfrey who's been above replacement level in one of the last four years, in which case it would make sense that some folks wouldn't like that idea. There's other names, I just threw one into the hat. Vance Worley is another name who just got released, who had a pretty good year with the Orioles in the AL East last year. He's another name. Edit- The Sox wouldn't also necessarily come out and say they needed another arm if they were looking to trade either.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 29, 2017 21:38:58 GMT -5
Pomeranz's FB at 88-89 Anderson Espinoza (aka as "the bust"), clocked at 97 this spring. Steven Wright in a knee brace . . . It's true, I'm not exactly Mr. Sunshine and Light, but I smell something rotten in Denmark with this team Well, the Espinoza/Pomeranz deal isn't worse than the Bagwell for Andersen deal, so there's that to be happy about.I think it will battle the Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater deal for 2nd place on the all-time bad trade list eventually. I think the Red Sox SHOULD be a very good ballclub, but I'm very uneasy about the bullpen and think the offense will struggle more than expected. I don't think the scary trio of Sale/Price/Porcello will materialize as expected although I do think that E-Rod and Wright will step forward. I think Pomeranz will be disappointing and eventually injured. I'm concerned that in the "We must win this year because the future will never come" mindset of Dave Dombrowski that more talent will be sacrificed. I think Swihart will go. If Ockimey takes a step forward I can see him going too. Perhaps even Dalbec. I think in the end there will have been a lot of sacrificing of future wins for a marginal improvement, if that, on the current team over this season and the next couple of years. It makes me pretty uneasy. I always felt comfortable when Theo was in charge. And I think time has shown Cherington to be better than what was previously thought, although he made his share of mistakes. Protecting and building the farm system wasn't one of them, though. With Dombrowski, it's either win or bust over the next few years, and that's not a philosophy of team building I buy into.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Mar 29, 2017 23:54:45 GMT -5
As to JBJ's streakiness, the fact is that almost all players are streaky. He has been a bit extreme but it's not all that uncommon. A couple of years ago I logged every Sox game into a spreadsheet so I could see how every player did for every game. Every player on the Sox had hot and cold streaks. Some were longer than others but all tended to group multi-hit games together and 0 for 4, or 1 for 5 or 0 for 3 games together. I believe this has been documented by others.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2017 7:26:37 GMT -5
So I saw that Robby Scott was announced on the opening day roster, while I don't agree with it, it could work out okay maybe.
My problem initially with the bullpen is that you have 3 guys in the bullpen who can ideally get batters out from one side of the plate, then you have 2 one inning pitchers in Kelly and Kimbrel (Kelly has only been limited to one inning appearances this spring and will be the 8th inning guy), and you got 2 guys in Barnes and Robbie Ross Jr who can probably go 2-3 innings each in a game once or twice a week.
Just really hard to get innings out of the bullpen that way and they might be leaned on heavily to start the year because no one likes to stretch out their starters too far into games in April. Also it could create problems if a starter gets bounced after 3 innings or there's a longer extra inning game. Okay I'm done on this subject.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 30, 2017 8:41:21 GMT -5
He has a .262/.345/.489 line in 900 plate appearances over the last two major league seasons. What is it, exactly, that you aren't believing in? That it will continue. I think the line is a by product of a few good weeks, a hot streak. OPS by month in 2016: April/March: .807 May: 1.175 June .805 July .839 August .651 Sept/Oct .731 I'm not necessarily the biggest JBJ fan in the world either but come on.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 30, 2017 8:43:44 GMT -5
That it will continue. I think the line is a by product of a few good weeks, a hot streak. I am in the same boat as you on JBJ to some extent, personally I am not a huge fan of his. I think his slash line is a bit inflated due to his amazing hot streak last May. Now that is not to say that I think he has no value to the team and is a negative player. I think with his defense he is a huge asset to the team I just wish he wasn't such a streaky player. Yes I also wish that every player on the team was an amazing defender with a .900 OPS every single month. But within the world of players who actually exist, JBJ is a pretty good one.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2017 9:08:02 GMT -5
Yeah I don't get why people are down on JBJ either.
He's a top 3 CF in the AL probably and probably a top 5 CF in all of baseball.
He's a strong kid who will slug, who will get on base, be a decent baserunner, and a great defender.
Wake up people. He's going to strike out a lot but whenever he does "touch the ball" as he said last year, it turns into bombs.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2017 9:59:19 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 30, 2017 10:19:11 GMT -5
Yeah I don't get why people are down on JBJ either. He's a top 3 CF in the AL probably and probably a top 5 CF in all of baseball. He's a strong kid who will slug, who will get on base, be a decent baserunner, and a great defender. Wake up people. He's going to strike out a lot but whenever he does "touch the ball" as he said last year, it turns into bombs. He also dropped his K-rate pretty dramatically last year, from 27.1% to 22.5%.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2017 10:25:27 GMT -5
Yeah I don't get why people are down on JBJ either. He's a top 3 CF in the AL probably and probably a top 5 CF in all of baseball. He's a strong kid who will slug, who will get on base, be a decent baserunner, and a great defender. Wake up people. He's going to strike out a lot but whenever he does "touch the ball" as he said last year, it turns into bombs. He also dropped his K-rate pretty dramatically last year, from 27.1% to 22.5%. Yeap, awesome player to have. The only thing to "be down on" with JBJ is that Boras is his agent. This is a player who you should look to keep.
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Post by dmaineah on Mar 30, 2017 11:16:02 GMT -5
Rutledge should be returned to Colorado Because he's hurt? You realize he can still be put on the DL, yes? Because he is not worth carrying on the roster. There are better hitters/players on the 40 man roster to carry as the 25th man. Yes I realize he is hurt and can be put on the DL. That's what probably saves him from being returned.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 30, 2017 11:25:02 GMT -5
He also dropped his K-rate pretty dramatically last year, from 27.1% to 22.5%. Yeap, awesome player to have. The only thing to "be down on" with JBJ is that Boras is his agent. This is a player who you should look to keep. I actually don't know what JBJ is a guy I'd want to keep long term. His defense has always been about good reactions, instincts, routs, etc, but his actual speed is fairly average. I don't know where that leaves him as a defender once he starts slowing down. His biggest issue offensively has always been the strikeouts, and contact ability only declines with age. The Red Sox already control him through age 29. I'm not sure I'm particularly interested in buying his age 30-35 years at market rate.
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Post by ematz1423 on Mar 30, 2017 11:34:06 GMT -5
He also dropped his K-rate pretty dramatically last year, from 27.1% to 22.5%. Yeap, awesome player to have. The only thing to "be down on" with JBJ is that Boras is his agent. This is a player who you should look to keep. Bradley is a guy I hope they let walk as they will have to pay Xander and Mookie around the same time. I know the dollar amounts won't end up being exactly the same but I would rather they keep the tandem of Mookie and Xander as I think they would both be harder to replace than JBJ.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2017 11:44:13 GMT -5
Yeap, awesome player to have. The only thing to "be down on" with JBJ is that Boras is his agent. This is a player who you should look to keep. I actually don't know what JBJ is a guy I'd want to keep long term. His defense has always been about good reactions, instincts, routs, etc, but his actual speed is fairly average. I don't know where that leaves him as a defender once he starts slowing down. His biggest issue offensively has always been the strikeouts, and contact ability only declines with age. The Red Sox already control him through age 29. I'm not sure I'm particularly interested in buying his age 30-35 years at market rate. Fair point, maybe if Boras wasn't his agent, they could of extended him for cheaper but who knows? The priority should be Sale and Mookie first and figure out the rest after.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 30, 2017 11:53:16 GMT -5
I actually don't know what JBJ is a guy I'd want to keep long term. His defense has always been about good reactions, instincts, routs, etc, but his actual speed is fairly average. I don't know where that leaves him as a defender once he starts slowing down. His biggest issue offensively has always been the strikeouts, and contact ability only declines with age. The Red Sox already control him through age 29. I'm not sure I'm particularly interested in buying his age 30-35 years at market rate. Fair point, maybe if Boras wasn't his agent, they could of extended him for cheaper but who knows? The priority should be Sale and Mookie first and figure out the rest after. If (and I think it's possible but not likely) Sale would do an additional, say, three years at $32-34M per year. I'd have absolutely zero interest in an 8/$260M deal like he's apt to get on the open market. I was OK with Price for a variety of reasons, but that sort of contract is way too risky for a pitcher. Extend Betts, Bogey, and sign Otani. Skip the insane contracts for Sale/Porcello if it comes to that.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2017 12:05:31 GMT -5
Fair point, maybe if Boras wasn't his agent, they could of extended him for cheaper but who knows? The priority should be Sale and Mookie first and figure out the rest after. If (and I think it's possible but not likely) Sale would do an additional, say, three years at $32-34M per year. I'd have absolutely zero interest in an 8/$260M deal like he's apt to get on the open market. I was OK with Price for a variety of reasons, but that sort of contract is way too risky for a pitcher. Extend Betts, Bogey, and sign Otani. Skip the insane contracts for Sale/Porcello if it comes to that. Yeah Otani is still the guy I want first too but if Sale is willing to take less to stay, then why not? I'm not sure if he's willing to sign for less after his last deal however but he seems like a guy who's willing to work with a team in order to win. I keep going back and forth on Xander. I'm not sure he'll stick at short into his first real contract for very long. I agree on Porcello, either trade him or let him walk with a QO attached and get some low level picks for him.
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Post by thursty on Mar 30, 2017 12:21:59 GMT -5
I'd say a blank check for Betts (they missed their opportunity already), and try to get Benintendi, Rodriguez, even Wright at cheap extensions (just look at what the Indians have done)
The rest, you should let walk, not because they're not good players, but they won't be worth the risk/cost
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Post by ramireja on Mar 30, 2017 16:20:07 GMT -5
If anyone here thought a year ago that Jamie Callahan would be battling for a spot on the 25-man roster four days prior to Opening Day, please step forward.
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Post by doctorduck21 on Mar 30, 2017 16:51:22 GMT -5
If anyone here thought a year ago that Jamie Callahan would be battling for a spot on the 25-man roster four days prior to Opening Day, please step forward. I wouldn't have believe it if you said it at any point. Never been impressed with Callahan before this. However he's looked impressive in the few innings I watched this spring. Looks like he's definitely leap frogged a good chuck of the relievers ahead of him at the start of spring
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Post by telson13 on Mar 30, 2017 17:20:09 GMT -5
If (and I think it's possible but not likely) Sale would do an additional, say, three years at $32-34M per year. I'd have absolutely zero interest in an 8/$260M deal like he's apt to get on the open market. I was OK with Price for a variety of reasons, but that sort of contract is way too risky for a pitcher. Extend Betts, Bogey, and sign Otani. Skip the insane contracts for Sale/Porcello if it comes to that. Yeah Otani is still the guy I want first too but if Sale is willing to take less to stay, then why not? I'm not sure if he's willing to sign for less after his last deal however but he seems like a guy who's willing to work with a team in order to win. I keep going back and forth on Xander. I'm not sure he'll stick at short into his first real contract for very long. I agree on Porcello, either trade him or let him walk with a QO attached and get some low level picks for him. Why not? Well, because "less to stay" is a range. Based on Kershaw, Price, and Grienke, Sale is a $32-35M AAV player right now. So even if he took, say, 8/$240M I'm not that big a fan. But a 3-4 year extension at that rate...maybe. I think letting Porcello walk would be a huge mistake. Bite the bullet and trade him or try to extend him for 2-3 years at $25M AAV. But letting any of these guys walk is a tremendous waste of resources.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 30, 2017 17:22:03 GMT -5
If anyone here thought a year ago that Jamie Callahan would be battling for a spot on the 25-man roster four days prior to Opening Day, please step forward. He was my "breakout" sleeper a couple years back. Does that count? Maybe not. Love the mid-90s gas and improved breaking stuff, though.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 30, 2017 17:39:22 GMT -5
JBJ isn't good...the bullpen lacks depth....25th man roster battle.....all we are missing is throwing Farrell under the bus. Well, there will be a time for that, and right quick, I might add.
Let's get this damn show on the road. Game threads...please.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 30, 2017 17:59:04 GMT -5
If anyone here thought a year ago that Jamie Callahan would be battling for a spot on the 25-man roster four days prior to Opening Day, please step forward. He was my "breakout" sleeper a couple years back. Does that count? Maybe not. Love the mid-90s gas and improved breaking stuff, though. I am shocked that he is still just 21 after being drafted in 2012 draft. I would have never thought he had a chance to make team out of spring training.
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Post by ramireja on Mar 30, 2017 18:22:55 GMT -5
If anyone here thought a year ago that Jamie Callahan would be battling for a spot on the 25-man roster four days prior to Opening Day, please step forward. He was my "breakout" sleeper a couple years back. Does that count?Maybe not. Love the mid-90s gas and improved breaking stuff, though. Well its the closest thing anyone has presented, so I'll give you credit for that. Still though, he's been pretty mediocre statistically since the sleeper pick.
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Post by fan72 on Mar 30, 2017 18:43:31 GMT -5
I'd say a blank check for Betts (they missed their opportunity already), and try to get Benintendi, Rodriguez, even Wright at cheap extensions (just look at what the Indians have done) The rest, you should let walk, not because they're not good players, but they won't be worth the risk/cost Seriously how have they missed their opportunity, not even Arb. Eligible till next year, and he has to be willing to have an extension.
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