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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 28, 2018 7:48:34 GMT -5
They have some serious electricity waiting in the wings between Lakins and Buttrey
If they give up significant assets for a reliever at the deadline I will lose it
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2018 10:56:16 GMT -5
FWIW, Buttrey's history suggests potential struggles when he comes up to the majors at first. I wouldn't rely on him or Lakins to be the late-inning savior.
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Post by ramireja on Jun 28, 2018 12:01:03 GMT -5
FWIW, Buttrey's history suggests potential struggles when he comes up to the majors at first. I wouldn't rely on him or Lakins to be the late-inning savior. Thats fair, and at the same time -- I think it may be time to give any Justin Haley-ish innings to Buttrey to see what we have and start the process of his MLB development. He's already on the 40-man roster, and although I agree that he could very well struggle initially....his upside is that of a real bullpen weapon down the home stretch.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2018 12:14:47 GMT -5
FWIW, Buttrey's history suggests potential struggles when he comes up to the majors at first. I wouldn't rely on him or Lakins to be the late-inning savior. Thats fair, and at the same time -- I think it may be time to give any Justin Haley-ish innings to Buttrey to see what we have and start the process of his MLB development. He's already on the 40-man roster, and although I agree that he could very well struggle initially....his upside is that of a real bullpen weapon down the home stretch. Depends what they need. When they call up Haley, presumably it's in part because he's stretched out and can give them length. That's why you go with him when Wright goes down, in the hope you can stay away from Johnson and/or Velazquez. Obviously they haven't needed that this week, but that's what he gives you that calling up Buttrey doesn't. They haven't really called up a right-hander to work true middle relief yet save for Workman, who is a different animal, obviously.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2018 12:29:12 GMT -5
Depends what they need. When they call up Haley, presumably it's in part because he's stretched out and can give them length. That's why you go with him when Wright goes down, in the hope you can stay away from Johnson and/or Velazquez. Obviously they haven't needed that this week, but that's what he gives you that calling up Buttrey doesn't. They haven't really called up a right-hander to work true middle relief yet save for Workman, who is a different animal, obviously. We currently have 25-man roster spots occupied by Justin Haley, Brian Johnson, Hector Velazquez, Brandon Workman, Eduardo Nunez, and Blake Swihart. If they want Buttery on the team there are options. Workman since being called up is 9-5-1-1-3-11. His spot is safe. Johnson and Velazquez probably aren't going anywhere until things settle with Wright and Pomeranz. Haley will be replaced by the SP who is coming up for the Nationals series (likely Beeks), and that spot goes to whoever gets healthy first between Pomeranz and Wright. They're not going to DFA a position player to call Buttrey up yet. To paraphrase Dunne, the reliever you haven't seen yet almost always seems like a better option than the reliever you've seen, but that's rarely the case.
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Post by ramireja on Jun 28, 2018 12:34:50 GMT -5
Thats fair, and at the same time -- I think it may be time to give any Justin Haley-ish innings to Buttrey to see what we have and start the process of his MLB development. He's already on the 40-man roster, and although I agree that he could very well struggle initially....his upside is that of a real bullpen weapon down the home stretch. Depends what they need. When they call up Haley, presumably it's in part because he's stretched out and can give them length. That's why you go with him when Wright goes down, in the hope you can stay away from Johnson and/or Velazquez. Obviously they haven't needed that this week, but that's what he gives you that calling up Buttrey doesn't. They haven't really called up a right-hander to work true middle relief yet save for Workman, who is a different animal, obviously. In principle I agree with you. In practice though, they turned to Haley for a single inning (the 9th) in the 9-1 win on Tuesday which is exactly the kind of inning I'd love to see Buttrey pitch. I actually want to step back because I think Buttrey needs his developmental time in Pawtucket, so I'm not trying to claim its a travesty they haven't brought him up yet. Moving forward though, I think we're at the point in the season (i.e., the midway point), where I'd like to see him get a chance given his recent string of success and to see if we have internal options for help down the stretch.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 28, 2018 12:52:42 GMT -5
Without trying to soil my reputation as the industry's leading voice in telling people that the reliever they like will disappoint them, I do think there's some sensibility in swapping Buttrey and Velazquez. You get Buttrey's feet wet and get him through those adjustment issues that he's had at nearly every level, and also get Velazquez's innings ramped back up in case you need a fifth starter again for an extended period.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 28, 2018 13:00:18 GMT -5
I have my own conspiracy theory as to why Buttrey is still down in AAA.
I think that perhaps the Sox are concerned he might struggle initially in the majors. I could see walks being an issue for him. Perhaps even for Lakins too.
Right now Buttrey has shiny stats in AAA with no struggling stats in the majors, so perhaps it's sort of an anti-showcasing thing. I think the Sox will do a deal similar to what they did last year for Addison Reed and I can see them dealing two of Buttrey/Lakins/Shawaryn/Poyner.
And the Sox have an abundance (or surplus as DD likes to call it) of RH relief pitching, so it's not difficult to imagine a couple of deals being made that thin out that RH relief pitching depth. At some point they deal Swihart because if they're not going to catch him semi-regularly I don't see what purpose his presence on the roster serves, and I can see Hembree going because he's redundant and another team can get value with him, so I see the Sox clearing out some of their depth to deal for the depth they need in other areas (RH bat off the bench, LH reliever, high leverage righty, perhaps even a starting 2b).
So I have my nitwit theory that Buttrey is being held down in AAA to keep his numbers pristine. And if you tell me that it's a ridiculous theory, that his having a bad week or two in the majors should be no big deal, I wouldn't even disagree with you.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 28, 2018 13:09:45 GMT -5
Maddox had walk issues last year as well. You just have to try Buttrey in the majors to see what he'd do in the majors.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2018 13:24:37 GMT -5
I have my own conspiracy theory as to why Buttrey is still down in AAA. I think that perhaps the Sox are concerned he might struggle initially in the majors. I could see walks being an issue for him. Perhaps even for Lakins too. Right now Buttrey has shiny stats in AAA with no struggling stats in the majors, so perhaps it's sort of an anti-showcasing thing. I think the Sox will do a deal similar to what they did last year for Addison Reed and I can see them dealing two of Buttrey/Lakins/Shawaryn/Poyner. And the Sox have an abundance (or surplus as DD likes to call it) of RH relief pitching, so it's not difficult to imagine a couple of deals being made that thin out that RH relief pitching depth. At some point they deal Swihart because if they're not going to catch him semi-regularly I don't see what purpose his presence on the roster serves, and I can see Hembree going because he's redundant and another team can get value with him, so I see the Sox clearing out some of their depth to deal for the depth they need in other areas (RH bat off the bench, LH reliever, high leverage righty, perhaps even a starting 2b). So I have my nitwit theory that Buttrey is being held down in AAA to keep his numbers pristine. And if you tell me that it's a ridiculous theory, that his having a bad week or two in the majors should be no big deal, I wouldn't even disagree with you. That's a thing, but I don't think it's the case here. They've definitely had players that looked due for promotions that have coincidentally gotten them right after the trade deadline, for sure. But (a) I don't think that's the case here (we've been talking about this for a few days, it's not like Buttrey's been begging for a promotion for months) and (b) I don't think that would ever be the case in the case of someone in AAA. If they think a guy can help in the majors, they'll call him up.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 28, 2018 14:25:32 GMT -5
This is how I see it. The Red Sox really don't have the system to gut for a top relief pitcher, so they may as well try to improve the back end. And the way to do that is to see what we've got with all these nice arms in AAA.
Although is Zach Britton keeps stinking, they could probably get him for next to free.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 28, 2018 15:11:07 GMT -5
I get the feeling this trade dead line will be the last we will be looking for a bullpen piece. I am glad about that. I think the FO learned there lesson except for a closer.
I am still hopeful one of the kids gets a break and I am glad Workman is back up.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 30, 2018 8:24:00 GMT -5
I think Jaokim Soria should be their target via trade. He’d fit perfectly into this team and there’s a 10m team option for next year so he’s not a one year rental and offers some Kimbrel protection. This team NEEDS another guy they can rely on at the back of that bullpen or they can kiss the World Series goodbye. Does it come from within? It’s certainly possible, we’ve seen it before, but that’s just sitting around waiting for luck at this point. The question is, what will it cost? Would Beeks be enough? Beeks and Dalbach?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 30, 2018 8:32:07 GMT -5
I think Jaokim Soria should be their target via trade. He’d fit perfectly into this team and there’s a 10m team option for next year so he’s not a one year rental and offers some Kimbrel protection. This team NEEDS another guy they can rely on at the back of that bullpen or they can kiss the World Series goodbye. Does it come from within? It’s certainly possible, we’ve seen it before, but that’s just sitting around waiting for luck at this point. The question is, what will it cost? Would Beeks be enough? Beeks and Dalbach? I think Soria might be the best option left. Not sure how they get the money to work without going over. I would think the Sox would hang onto Beeks as they will need starting pitching depth down the road that's cheap, but the Sox should have enough to get Soria or any reliever other than Brad Hand, really. You mentioned the help coming from within, like a Buttrey or Poyner. As I think about it, the Sox haven't normally had help from within - at least not in a prominent bullpen role. They had Calvin Schiraldi in 86. The Sox leaned on Manny Delcarmen in 2007 and Brandon Workman in 2013 but they were more middle relief. Justin Masterson was somebody the Sox used as a setup man in 2008, so there have been some occasions. Just not too often. Does Buttrey come in low leverage and work his way up by September? What if he can't hack that by then? That's why I think the Sox get more certainty - like a Soria. If the Sox do plan on going by the LT limit, and if Britton starts pitching better, I'd love to see both Britton and Soria if the price ($ and talent cost acquisition) is right.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 30, 2018 8:32:39 GMT -5
I think Jaokim Soria should be their target via trade. He’d fit perfectly into this team and there’s a 10m team option for next year so he’s not a one year rental and offers some Kimbrel protection. This team NEEDS another guy they can rely on at the back of that bullpen or they can kiss the World Series goodbye. Does it come from within? It’s certainly possible, we’ve seen it before, but that’s just sitting around waiting for luck at this point. The question is, what will it cost? Would Beeks be enough? Beeks and Dalbach? I like the Soria idea too. The White Sox are one of the few teams that are looking for young catching help. It's one of the few matches the Sox could have lined up for a Swihart trade. I was thinking that the Sox could trade Swihart, Buttrey, and maybe Nunez (for salary purposes) that might be a good way to finish off the trade deadline.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 30, 2018 8:58:47 GMT -5
I think Jaokim Soria should be their target via trade. He’d fit perfectly into this team and there’s a 10m team option for next year so he’s not a one year rental and offers some Kimbrel protection. This team NEEDS another guy they can rely on at the back of that bullpen or they can kiss the World Series goodbye. Does it come from within? It’s certainly possible, we’ve seen it before, but that’s just sitting around waiting for luck at this point. The question is, what will it cost? Would Beeks be enough? Beeks and Dalbach? I think Soria might be the best option left. Not sure how they get the money to work without going over. I would think the Sox would hang onto Beeks as they will need starting pitching depth down the road that's cheap, but the Sox should have enough to get Soria or any reliever other than Brad Hand, really. You mentioned the help coming from within, like a Buttrey or Poyner. As I think about it, the Sox haven't normally had help from within - at least not in a prominent bullpen role. They had Calvin Schiraldi in 86. The Sox leaned on Manny Delcarmen in 2007 and Brandon Workman in 2013 but they were more middle relief. Justin Masterson was somebody the Sox used as a setup man in 2008, so there have been some occasions. Just not too often. Does Buttrey come in low leverage and work his way up by September? What if he can't hack that by then? That's why I think the Sox get more certainty - like a Soria. If the Sox do plan on going by the LT limit, and if Britton starts pitching better, I'd love to see both Britton and Soria if the price ($ and talent cost acquisition) is right. How much room do the Sox have? Soria is at 10m this year but Royals are paying one and we are over half way thru he season so he only adds around 4m. I didn’t think that was an issue for the Sox. For cheap starting pitching the Sox have Velasquez (who I feel has done a good job proving himself as a guy who is reliable and a better pitcher than his “stuff”), Wright and even Johnson. You always need more but I think Beeks is a sell high guy who you won’t miss so if he can get you a guy like Soria I’d be comfortable letting him go. Help from within, come playoff time, can even be a major league roster guy who just steps up and out performs his regular season and becomes lights out in the playoffs. Not a great example because he had previous track record but in 2003 Scott Williamson sucked for the Red Sox in the regular season then was lights out in the playoffs. The entire bullpen kind of did that in 2003. Embree and Timlin were kind of like Kelley and Barnes are but then that post season they were untouchable. So it can happen, I just wouldn’t count on it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 30, 2018 9:32:24 GMT -5
I think Soria might be the best option left. Not sure how they get the money to work without going over. I would think the Sox would hang onto Beeks as they will need starting pitching depth down the road that's cheap, but the Sox should have enough to get Soria or any reliever other than Brad Hand, really. You mentioned the help coming from within, like a Buttrey or Poyner. As I think about it, the Sox haven't normally had help from within - at least not in a prominent bullpen role. They had Calvin Schiraldi in 86. The Sox leaned on Manny Delcarmen in 2007 and Brandon Workman in 2013 but they were more middle relief. Justin Masterson was somebody the Sox used as a setup man in 2008, so there have been some occasions. Just not too often. Does Buttrey come in low leverage and work his way up by September? What if he can't hack that by then? That's why I think the Sox get more certainty - like a Soria. If the Sox do plan on going by the LT limit, and if Britton starts pitching better, I'd love to see both Britton and Soria if the price ($ and talent cost acquisition) is right. How much room do the Sox have? Soria is at 10m this year but Royals are paying one and we are over half way thru he season so he only adds around 4m. I didn’t think that was an issue for the Sox. For cheap starting pitching the Sox have Velasquez (who I feel has done a good job proving himself as a guy who is reliable and a better pitcher than his “stuff”), Wright and even Johnson. You always need more but I think Beeks is a sell high guy who you won’t miss so if he can get you a guy like Soria I’d be comfortable letting him go. Help from within, come playoff time, can even be a major league roster guy who just steps up and out performs his regular season and becomes lights out in the playoffs. Not a great example because he had previous track record but in 2003 Scott Williamson sucked for the Red Sox in the regular season then was lights out in the playoffs. The entire bullpen kind of did that in 2003. Embree and Timlin were kind of like Kelley and Barnes are but then that post season they were untouchable. So it can happen, I just wouldn’t count on it. The guy I think the Sox ultimately get - and because I think they really want to stay under the luxury tax limit - is Brad Brach. That's who I think the Sox will get. He's high leverage, has plenty of good experience against the Yankees, and his price tag is affordable to the point they should be able to find a way to stay under the limit. That said, Brach is not my favorite choice. I think his control makes me nervous. I don't think Beeks will be a superstar by any stretch but I think he can be an effective backend starter or a decent lefty option out of the pen - I like him better for that role than Brian Johnson anyways. I don't think the Sox will or should ultimately part with Beeks. I think they'll need him too much in the next couple of years or so. As far as Scott Williamson goes my memory was that he pitched alright for the Sox in the regular season. Maybe he didn't set the world on fire but I don't remember him being bad. I remember Scott Sauerbeck being awful which was unanticipated. The reason you remember Williamson seizing the closers' role in the 2003 post-season was that Kim was having issues as the season drew to a close and flipping the fans the bird in the ALDS didn't help things. I think Kim wasn't even on the roster for the ALCS. I think at some point he was removed from the ALDS roster as well, or maybe he was never on it. I'm sure somebody else remembers better than I do.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 30, 2018 10:23:54 GMT -5
How much room do the Sox have? Soria is at 10m this year but Royals are paying one and we are over half way thru he season so he only adds around 4m. I didn’t think that was an issue for the Sox. For cheap starting pitching the Sox have Velasquez (who I feel has done a good job proving himself as a guy who is reliable and a better pitcher than his “stuff”), Wright and even Johnson. You always need more but I think Beeks is a sell high guy who you won’t miss so if he can get you a guy like Soria I’d be comfortable letting him go. Help from within, come playoff time, can even be a major league roster guy who just steps up and out performs his regular season and becomes lights out in the playoffs. Not a great example because he had previous track record but in 2003 Scott Williamson sucked for the Red Sox in the regular season then was lights out in the playoffs. The entire bullpen kind of did that in 2003. Embree and Timlin were kind of like Kelley and Barnes are but then that post season they were untouchable. So it can happen, I just wouldn’t count on it. The guy I think the Sox ultimately get - and because I think they really want to stay under the luxury tax limit - is Brad Brach. That's who I think the Sox will get. He's high leverage, has plenty of good experience against the Yankees, and his price tag is affordable to the point they should be able to find a way to stay under the limit. That said, Brach is not my favorite choice. I think his control makes me nervous. I don't think Beeks will be a superstar by any stretch but I think he can be an effective backend starter or a decent lefty option out of the pen - I like him better for that role than Brian Johnson anyways. I don't think the Sox will or should ultimately part with Beeks. I think they'll need him too much in the next couple of years or so. As far as Scott Williamson goes my memory was that he pitched alright for the Sox in the regular season. Maybe he didn't set the world on fire but I don't remember him being bad. I remember Scott Sauerbeck being awful which was unanticipated. The reason you remember Williamson seizing the closers' role in the 2003 post-season was that Kim was having issues as the season drew to a close and flipping the fans the bird in the ALDS didn't help things. I think Kim wasn't even on the roster for the ALCS. I think at some point he was removed from the ALDS roster as well, or maybe he was never on it. I'm sure somebody else remembers better than I do. Williamson was terrible for the Six after they traded for him. ERA over 6. Gave up runs in a quarter of his appearances. Then he was virtually untouchable in he post season. Closer role or not; it’s that he was dominant. Anyways, you keep bringing up not going over the tax line. Do you know how much room the Sox have? I thought it was about 10m and Soria wouldn’t come close to touching it. You only count the prorated salary.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2018 11:39:40 GMT -5
Will the Sox decide that this is the year to go for it and blow by the luxury tax cap? It is looking like a possibility it seems.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 30, 2018 11:46:25 GMT -5
Will the Sox decide that this is the year to go for it and blow by the luxury tax cap? It is looking like a possibility it seems. I doubt it, wouldn’t you have called up Rusney?
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2018 12:03:24 GMT -5
When you combine the fact that the Yankees and the Astros are as good as they are and in very good shape moving forward compared to the Sox cap wise doesn't it kind of make sense to go for it now? If they go after more BP help and hence go over the cap then maybe when it comes to Rusney but then that means they have his cap hit in the future also so maybe not.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 30, 2018 12:18:05 GMT -5
The guy I think the Sox ultimately get - and because I think they really want to stay under the luxury tax limit - is Brad Brach. That's who I think the Sox will get. He's high leverage, has plenty of good experience against the Yankees, and his price tag is affordable to the point they should be able to find a way to stay under the limit. That said, Brach is not my favorite choice. I think his control makes me nervous. I don't think Beeks will be a superstar by any stretch but I think he can be an effective backend starter or a decent lefty option out of the pen - I like him better for that role than Brian Johnson anyways. I don't think the Sox will or should ultimately part with Beeks. I think they'll need him too much in the next couple of years or so. As far as Scott Williamson goes my memory was that he pitched alright for the Sox in the regular season. Maybe he didn't set the world on fire but I don't remember him being bad. I remember Scott Sauerbeck being awful which was unanticipated. The reason you remember Williamson seizing the closers' role in the 2003 post-season was that Kim was having issues as the season drew to a close and flipping the fans the bird in the ALDS didn't help things. I think Kim wasn't even on the roster for the ALCS. I think at some point he was removed from the ALDS roster as well, or maybe he was never on it. I'm sure somebody else remembers better than I do. Williamson was terrible for the Six after they traded for him. ERA over 6. Gave up runs in a quarter of his appearances. Then he was virtually untouchable in he post season. Closer role or not; it’s that he was dominant. Anyways, you keep bringing up not going over the tax line. Do you know how much room the Sox have? I thought it was about 10m and Soria wouldn’t come close to touching it. You only count the prorated salary. Jeez, you're right about Williamson. I remember being happy that the Sox got him and I remember him pitching well before getting injured in 2004, but apparently I forgot how lousy he was during the 2003 regular season when they acquired him. Williamson did crack once in that post-season though and he's lucky few remember. If Derek Lowe didn't do such a Houdini, Williamson would have been the goat. In Game 5 of the ALDS, in the last of the 9th with a Sox clinging to a 4-3 lead, he walked the first two batters of the inning - including Jose Guillen who never walked. Derek Lowe came in, the A's sac bunted the runners over, then Lowe struck out Adam Melhuse on a nasty bender, walked the next guy to load the bases and then struck out Terrence Long on that same nasty bender. Anyways, I don't know the Sox' exact payroll number, but I believe they're within 2 million dollars of hitting the limit. No doubt Soria's money pro-rated would put them over unless they're able to have the ChiSox pay some. Dombrowski mentioned about the penalties and moving back 10 spots, but if ownership gives him the green light, he'll go past the limit. At this point, I totally think he should. I don't know that the difference between the 28th pick or the 38th pick is that huge and the money penalty shouldn't be that huge. This is the Sox' best shot to win the World Series during this cycle. If they can do it without harming the farm system, they should go past the limit.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 30, 2018 14:15:21 GMT -5
When you combine the fact that the Yankees and the Astros are as good as they are and in very good shape moving forward compared to the Sox cap wise doesn't it kind of make sense to go for it now? If they go after more BP help and hence go over the cap then maybe when it comes to Rusney but then that means they have his cap hit in the future also so maybe not. 538 Sports had the Red Sox with a 13% chance of winning the WS this year and the Yankees a 14% chance. How much do you want to blow it up just to get another 2-3% chance? It seems crazy to think about mortgaging much more of the future for that. They have a great team and will undoubtedly make the playoffs and even should get past the Wild Card game with Sale pitching if they don't win the division. I don't see the point in making so many trades at this point. I'd rather that they focus on making the playoffs every year instead of trading all of the prospects and putting themselves in such a crappy cap situation just to win 1 World Series when there is no possible way to make sure that they win. Roll a 6 sided die and hope for a 6, because that's about what our odds will ever be at the very most. Making the playoffs is the realistic goal that can be achieved by team building. Winning the WS is winning the lottery.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,092
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Post by cdj on Jul 1, 2018 8:20:21 GMT -5
I think Soria might be the best option left. Not sure how they get the money to work without going over. I would think the Sox would hang onto Beeks as they will need starting pitching depth down the road that's cheap, but the Sox should have enough to get Soria or any reliever other than Brad Hand, really. You mentioned the help coming from within, like a Buttrey or Poyner. As I think about it, the Sox haven't normally had help from within - at least not in a prominent bullpen role. They had Calvin Schiraldi in 86. The Sox leaned on Manny Delcarmen in 2007 and Brandon Workman in 2013 but they were more middle relief. Justin Masterson was somebody the Sox used as a setup man in 2008, so there have been some occasions. Just not too often. Does Buttrey come in low leverage and work his way up by September? What if he can't hack that by then? That's why I think the Sox get more certainty - like a Soria. If the Sox do plan on going by the LT limit, and if Britton starts pitching better, I'd love to see both Britton and Soria if the price ($ and talent cost acquisition) is right. How much room do the Sox have? Soria is at 10m this year but Royals are paying one and we are over half way thru he season so he only adds around 4m. I didn’t think that was an issue for the Sox. For cheap starting pitching the Sox have Velasquez (who I feel has done a good job proving himself as a guy who is reliable and a better pitcher than his “stuff”), Wright and even Johnson. You always need more but I think Beeks is a sell high guy who you won’t miss so if he can get you a guy like Soria I’d be comfortable letting him go. Help from within, come playoff time, can even be a major league roster guy who just steps up and out performs his regular season and becomes lights out in the playoffs. Not a great example because he had previous track record but in 2003 Scott Williamson sucked for the Red Sox in the regular season then was lights out in the playoffs. The entire bullpen kind of did that in 2003. Embree and Timlin were kind of like Kelley and Barnes are but then that post season they were untouchable. So it can happen, I just wouldn’t count on it. Hell, the last time the Red Sox won the WS they were rolling Tazawa and Breslow out in high leverage situations. I trust this years bullpen more than I do 2013’s. The position is wildly unpredictable. It is volatile. They need to learn their lesson and stop burning significant assets for relievers. They do not have the prospect currency to continue to do so. I want them to see what they have in house and then MAYBE make a deal for a guy that will only cost a couple depth prospects
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 1, 2018 12:15:28 GMT -5
How much room do the Sox have? Soria is at 10m this year but Royals are paying one and we are over half way thru he season so he only adds around 4m. I didn’t think that was an issue for the Sox. For cheap starting pitching the Sox have Velasquez (who I feel has done a good job proving himself as a guy who is reliable and a better pitcher than his “stuff”), Wright and even Johnson. You always need more but I think Beeks is a sell high guy who you won’t miss so if he can get you a guy like Soria I’d be comfortable letting him go. Help from within, come playoff time, can even be a major league roster guy who just steps up and out performs his regular season and becomes lights out in the playoffs. Not a great example because he had previous track record but in 2003 Scott Williamson sucked for the Red Sox in the regular season then was lights out in the playoffs. The entire bullpen kind of did that in 2003. Embree and Timlin were kind of like Kelley and Barnes are but then that post season they were untouchable. So it can happen, I just wouldn’t count on it. Hell, the last time the Red Sox won the WS they were rolling Tazawa and Breslow out in high leverage situations. I trust this years bullpen more than I do 2013’s. The position is wildly unpredictable. It is volatile. They need to learn their lesson and stop burning significant assets for relievers. They do not have the prospect currency to continue to do so. I want them to see what they have in house and then MAYBE make a deal for a guy that will only cost a couple depth prospects To be fair Breslow and Tazawa were pretty damn good that year. They were worn out by the post-season so I think Farrell spotted Tazawa in very short stints and Breslow was brilliant until he ran out of gas following the ALCS. Honestly I trusted those guys more than I trust Kelly and Barnes. Maybe it's their lack of consistent strike throwing that concerns me. Plus the Sox didn't have to face teams the caliber of Houston and NY like they'd have to this season. In 2013, TB, Detroit, and St Louis were good teams, but they weren't .650 - .700 caliber clubs like Houston and NY are. The bullpen needs to be better. I think the Sox would benefit from another high leverage reliever and when you go up against Houston or NY, I think they're going to need one. I don't think you can just plug a reliever like Buttrey and feel like he's the answer. If you do try though, he has a month to prove that he can be that high leverage guy, which isn't fair to a kid like Buttrey. I think Dombrowski wants to audition Thornburg in that role (natural because that's what he was with Milwaukee) and if he succeeds, awesome the Sox have a high leverage reliever that they'll lean on heavily. But if he struggles (and I thought he did at times at Pawtucket), then Dombrowski will get another reliever. My question is how much do you think the Sox are really going to give up for a reliever, particularly a guy's who's probably a rental? If the guy costs bucks and the Sox decide to go over the limit, then the Sox will not likely be giving up anybody of consequence. They'll move back 10 spots in the draft and pay some financial penalty. Most likely it's a rental they get and the guy shouldn't cost a ton in prospects, likely just future middle relievers, which are the easiest assets to develop in the minors given how many minor league starters wind up having to convert to relief because they can't hack it as starters. I know the Sox made what was a bad deal for Thornburg but the attraction for the Sox was the multiple years of control. That's not likely the case the Sox face this month. I'm not overly concerned that the Sox will make some huge overpay that will kill them.
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