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Post by James Dunne on May 23, 2019 15:19:34 GMT -5
Devers is hitting .317/.384/.481, Guerrero is hitting .241/.315/.446. Devers is at 0 DRS for the season (entering today), Guerrero at +1 DRS. Devers is at -5.3 UZR/150, Guerrero at -6/9 UZR/150. I was strictly talking offense about the monster part (should have been mpre specific), Devers is hot no doubt, but I still expect Vlad to be better by the end of the year. So what you're saying is that Devers is currently a monster and that you're projecting Vlad to be a monster? Because your post said the opposite of that.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 23, 2019 15:26:02 GMT -5
Vlad Jr.s body type is more troublesome than Dever's body type. I think they will both be stars for the foreseeable future though.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 23, 2019 15:29:49 GMT -5
I was strictly talking offense about the monster part (should have been mpre specific), Devers is hot no doubt, but I still expect Vlad to be better by the end of the year. So what you're saying is that Devers is currently a monster and that you're projecting Vlad to be a monster? Because your post said the opposite of that. Nope, I'm saying Devers is hot and wait until the final statistics of the season comes up. I think Vlad will have the better line by the end of the year. Devers is having a great start of the season, but he did have a .730 OPS last year.
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Post by James Dunne on May 23, 2019 15:37:40 GMT -5
And a .770 OPS since the start of last year, which is better than Vlad's.
You don't have to justify thinking Vlad will be better, or is the better prospect - it's a pretty commonly held belief (if maybe a tad less than consensus.) Vlad probably is better right now than Devers was two years ago, and Devers was a pretty precocious 20-year-old so that's saying something. But the idea that Vlad is currently "better" while Devers is just "hot" - I dunno. Sounds like your preconceptions are getting in the way of any analysis.
Devers has a better approach and is more likely to stick at third. Guerrero has a better hit tool, including some supernatural (and apparently genetic?) plate coverage.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 23, 2019 15:44:20 GMT -5
I just think it's very realistic that Devers starts hitting the way he did last year at any moment, he'll start chasing pitches and striking out more.
I believe in the hit tool of the Gurrrero family. He has a chance to catch 30 homeruns in a short season in MLB this year.
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Post by jimed14 on May 23, 2019 15:50:45 GMT -5
I just think it's very realistic that Devers starts hitting the way he did last year at any moment, he'll start chasing pitches and striking out more. I believe in the hit tool of the Gurrrero family. He has a chance to catch 30 homeruns in a short season in MLB this year. So then you believe that Vlad Jr. will become a monster that he isn't yet and that Devers will come back to earth which hasn't happened yet. Do you have trouble with the concept of past and future? Vlad is currently not a bigger monster than Devers and that's the only reason why anyone is discussing it with you. Someday when he is actually better based on his past stats and not based on your future predictions, you can say what you said without being challenged.
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Post by jimed14 on May 23, 2019 15:57:27 GMT -5
Vlad has some work to do when pitchers get the news to never throw him a fastball again.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 23, 2019 15:58:58 GMT -5
I would have a hard time picking between Devers and Vlad Jr if I had to pick one. (not counting service time) I thought about the other day and how I see it is would I pick the .900+ OPS DH (because he's a butcher in the field, slow runner and his body is already getting out of control) or the .800+ OPS average fielder (I'm being conservative here) at 3rd base who happen to be a sneaky good baserunner? Love Vladito but I'm very happy with my large son who I'm on record for saying he's the most gifted player of our young core. I'm not convinced that Vlad Jr. will end up as a better hitter than Devers. But that's because I'm not convinced that anyone will end up a better hitter than Devers.
At any given time there are just a handful of players whose upside is "best hitter in baseball, period."
Devers got his name in that discussion when he homered off of Chapman his rookie season, because that feat (hitting that pitch, in that spot in the zone, by that guy, in that direction, that hard) was one that, before the fact (a priori for you philosophy types) would have been labeled impossible.
At the time it might have been a fluke. He didn't do much last year to reinforce the idea that his upside was MAX({upsides}). But this year he's consistently doing stuff that's nearly as impressive. His oppo-field homer yesterday was ridiculous. The bomb he hit the night before was on a tough curve with a nice hard break thrown to a spot, down and in, that's a hole for some lefty hitters, but he seemed to know it was coming and barreled it.
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Post by jimed14 on May 23, 2019 16:02:35 GMT -5
I thought about the other day and how I see it is would I pick the .900+ OPS DH (because he's a butcher in the field, slow runner and his body is already getting out of control) or the .800+ OPS average fielder (I'm being conservative here) at 3rd base who happen to be a sneaky good baserunner? Love Vladito but I'm very happy with my large son who I'm on record for saying he's the most gifted player of our young core. I'm not convinced that Vlad Jr. will end up as a better hitter than Devers. But that's because I'm not convinced that anyone will end up a better hitter than Devers.
At any given time there are just a handful of players whose upside is "best hitter in baseball, period."
Devers got his name in that discussion when he homered off of Chapman his rookie season, because that feat (hitting that pitch, in that spot in the zone, by that guy, in that direction, that hard) was one that, before the fact (a priori for you philosophy types) would have been labeled impossible.
At the time it might have been a fluke. He didn't do much last year to reinforce the idea that his upside was MAX({upsides}). But this year he's consistently doing stuff that's nearly as impressive. His oppo-field homer yesterday was ridiculous. The bomb he hit the night before was on a tough curve with a nice hard break thrown to a spot, down and in, that's a hole for some lefty hitters, but he seemed to know it was coming and barreled it. I'm seriously at the point where I care about a Devers extension more than a Mookie one. It seems to me that what he is doing right now hasn't been done by any Red Sox hitter since Papi in his prime. Just tearing the cover off the ball over and over again. I do think that Chapman home run set him back because he thought he could hit any pitch for a HR, even if they were a foot higher than the strike zone.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 23, 2019 16:04:08 GMT -5
I just think it's very realistic that Devers starts hitting the way he did last year at any moment, he'll start chasing pitches and striking out more. I believe in the hit tool of the Gurrrero family. He has a chance to catch 30 homeruns in a short season in MLB this year. So then you believe that Vlad Jr. will become a monster that he isn't yet and that Devers will come back to earth which hasn't happened yet. Do you have trouble with the concept of past and future? Vlad is currently not a bigger monster than Devers and that's the only reason why anyone is discussing it with you. Someday when he is actually better based on his past stats and not based on your future predictions, you can say what you said without being challenged. I'm saying give it three months into the seaaon. How much further into the future are you talking? Truly sorry that I think Vlad will still have the better line, even though he's only been up for three weeks. I think it's coming THIS year. Yes I believe Devers will come back to earth and Vlad will start destroying American League pitching in a month. People can have different opinions.
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Post by jimed14 on May 23, 2019 16:07:15 GMT -5
So then you believe that Vlad Jr. will become a monster that he isn't yet and that Devers will come back to earth which hasn't happened yet. Do you have trouble with the concept of past and future? Vlad is currently not a bigger monster than Devers and that's the only reason why anyone is discussing it with you. Someday when he is actually better based on his past stats and not based on your future predictions, you can say what you said without being challenged. I'm saying give it three months into the seaaon. How much further into the future are you talking? Truly sorry that I think Vlad will still have the better line, even though he's only been up for three weeks. I think it's coming THIS year. Yes I believe Devers will come back to earth and Vlad will start destroying American League pitching in a month. People can have different opinions. NO ONE IS ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT YOUR FUTURE PREDICTIONS. I don't know why you can't understand the problem with this statement when Devers is hitting better than Vlad today. If you said "I think Vlad will be better than Devers this year" no one would have argued with you. But you didn't say that. You basically said Vlad is already better than Devers even though Devers has better stats. He isn't better until he actually does have better stats. How is Vlad Jr. already a monster with a 103 wRC+?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 23, 2019 16:16:05 GMT -5
Okay, whatever. If you want to be technical, then I chose my words poorly AT THIS POINT IN TIME. I didn't know that this place was twitter.
Add- Should have said "Vlad will be a monster this year. Who knows if Devers will keep up the pace and continue to be a monster this year."
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 23, 2019 16:21:47 GMT -5
I thought about the other day and how I see it is would I pick the .900+ OPS DH (because he's a butcher in the field, slow runner and his body is already getting out of control) or the .800+ OPS average fielder (I'm being conservative here) at 3rd base who happen to be a sneaky good baserunner? Love Vladito but I'm very happy with my large son who I'm on record for saying he's the most gifted player of our young core. I'm not convinced that Vlad Jr. will end up as a better hitter than Devers. But that's because I'm not convinced that anyone will end up a better hitter than Devers. Ronald Acuña Jr.
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Post by jimed14 on May 23, 2019 16:43:56 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that Vlad Jr. will end up as a better hitter than Devers. But that's because I'm not convinced that anyone will end up a better hitter than Devers. Ronald Acuña Jr. Cody Bellinger is making his case. Still on pace for a 13.3 fWAR season and his wRC+ is 225.
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Post by malynn19 on May 23, 2019 17:04:53 GMT -5
I see someone still hating on Devers... Will Vlad become a better 3rd baseman too? What he is trying to say is that Devers is just lucky atm but Vlad (and everyone else) are just good. Do you even read your own posts?
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 23, 2019 17:38:17 GMT -5
Superb win today. We are 4 over .500 and playing well.
The last few pages of this thread make me giggle.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 23, 2019 17:47:45 GMT -5
I'm not convinced that Vlad Jr. will end up as a better hitter than Devers. But that's because I'm not convinced that anyone will end up a better hitter than Devers. Ronald Acuña Jr. Y’all ever heard of Mike Trout?
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Post by patford on May 23, 2019 17:56:20 GMT -5
I'll got out on a very short and strong limb. Devers is the best hitter in baseball. That's how good he is.
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Post by patford on May 23, 2019 18:01:05 GMT -5
Devers hasn't even gotten hot yet. When he does get hot infielders will be lying on the ground behind bases to avoid having their heads torn off.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 23, 2019 18:17:51 GMT -5
I'll got out on a very short and strong limb. Devers is the best hitter in baseball. That's how good he is. Is this some sort of a gaslighting? What is going on with the Devers takes around here?
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on May 23, 2019 21:18:31 GMT -5
I'll got out on a very short and strong limb. Devers is the best hitter in baseball. That's how good he is. Pardon me while I go get my chainsaw ......
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Post by p23w on May 23, 2019 22:58:01 GMT -5
When Vlad Jr. turns on a Chapman 103mph fastball and takes it out, then you can talk about his "hit tool", his genetics and being a "monster". Until such time I am pleased with Devers.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 23, 2019 23:12:21 GMT -5
All this arguing over semantics.
For the time being Devers is better than Vlad Guerrero Jr. Whatever gap there is should dissipate sooner than later as Jr has an 80 hit tool. The only question I have re: Jr is will his weight balloon up and affect his abilities somewhat?
There was that concern a bit with Devers but he's done a good job staying in shape.
I do hope that soon Devers winds up in the 3 spot between Betts and JDM again and that Cora sticks with that this time around.
I gotta say that was one strange looking lineup Cora rolled out there today, but if everybody hits then I guess the order doesn't matter much.
I'd also say the Sox are having great luck with pitchers whose last name begins with W. So now we're looking at Workman, Walden, and Weber.
I don't anticipate that Weber will continue to confound. His stuff isn't overly impressive but the way that ball was moving was. He has done absolutely nothing to deserve to be demoted when some of the pitchers start coming off the DL. Guess we'll see if he can continue to be effective. That was a big lift by him, giving the Sox six quality innings.
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Post by patford on May 24, 2019 8:07:27 GMT -5
Vlad Guerrero Jr. who is only 20 already looks like Pablo Sandoval.
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Post by James Dunne on May 24, 2019 8:13:29 GMT -5
I heard Barry Bonds wears Rafael Devers pajamas.
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