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Let's make a deal! Building a Yamamoto contract
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Post by bosoxnation on Dec 22, 2023 0:46:54 GMT -5
Like i said before. Ohtani deferment was for YY. Who's picking us over the Dodgers. Nobody. Talent and Weather alone.They have studs everywhere. We don't even have a handful and they are willing to pay top dollar just makes it unfair at this point.
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Post by homerdante on Dec 22, 2023 1:10:30 GMT -5
Like i said before. Ohtani deferment was for YY. Who's picking us over the Dodgers. Nobody. Talent and Weather alone.They have studs everywhere. We don't even have a handful and they are willing to pay top dollar just makes it unfair at this point. I'm inclined to agree about there being an unfair quality it seems like the league office needs to address. The current stacking of talent via deferment is clearly thwarting the intended balance the CBA is supposed to maintain. Feels like the Dodgers should be punished severely.
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Post by taiwansox on Dec 22, 2023 1:13:18 GMT -5
Pair of opt-outs in his contract too according to Passan
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 22, 2023 1:15:40 GMT -5
So much whining about LAD. Call me when they win a real World Series.
Better yet: I give you LAD and you give me the field for the 2024 WS. Straight up. You taking that?
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Post by kman22 on Dec 22, 2023 1:22:55 GMT -5
So much whining about LAD. Call me when they win a real World Series. Better yet: I give you LAD and you give me the field for the 2024 WS. Straight up. You taking that? The field includes the Braves, so I'd go with the field option too.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Dec 22, 2023 1:23:54 GMT -5
So much whining about LAD. Call me when they win a real World Series. Better yet: I give you LAD and you give me the field for the 2024 WS. Straight up. You taking that? I don't think people are upset about the Dodgers potentially winning a ton of World Series rings in the next few years, I think people are just upset that a team can sign all of the top players and apparently the financials just don't matter. You can argue whether it's good or bad for the game, but it is frustrating that any time a player says "I like LA", you just know that he's signing with the Dodgers.
Could the Red Sox shell out 325 over 12 years? Sure, but players are clearly choosing LA for other reasons, and the Dodgers don't seem to be swayed by the luxury tax at all.
Regardless of who wins the World Series, baseball is less fun when one team buys up all the stars in a single off-season.
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Post by homerdante on Dec 22, 2023 1:33:54 GMT -5
So much whining about LAD. Call me when they win a real World Series. Better yet: I give you LAD and you give me the field for the 2024 WS. Straight up. You taking that? I don't think people are upset about the Dodgers potentially winning a ton of World Series rings in the next few years, I think people are just upset that a team can sign all of the top players and apparently the financials just don't matter. You can argue whether it's good or bad for the game, but it is frustrating that any time a player says "I like LA", you just know that he's signing with the Dodgers.
Could the Red Sox shell out 325 over 12 years? Sure, but players are clearly choosing LA for other reasons, and the Dodgers don't seem to be swayed by the luxury tax at all.
Regardless of who wins the World Series, baseball is less fun when one team buys up all the stars in a single off-season.
An entire system attempting to keep any vague semblance of competitive balance in the sport has been negotiated and re-negotiated over decades now. The Dodgers are breaking that system with their current actions. The sport is broken with this most recent trash move. They should have something massive done to their organization like forfeiting their top ten picks for five years, and their entire front office and ownership should be suspended for five years. The intent of the CBA is clear. If a team blows up their draft budget, there are repercussions. If they exceed the tax thresholds there are repercussions. There damn well ought to be repercussions for colluding with a player to circumvent competitive balance design--it undermines the entire sport. ps, Ohtani is a loser. I've lost all respect for him. He tried to join Trout to make a super team and failed, now he wants to undermine the entire sport of baseball to get a ring. Zero integrity.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 22, 2023 1:35:12 GMT -5
Like i said before. Ohtani deferment was for YY. Who's picking us over the Dodgers. Nobody. Talent and Weather alone.They have studs everywhere. We don't even have a handful and they are willing to pay top dollar just makes it unfair at this point. There were quite a few teams offering those dollars. That's not what decided it. And they don't have studs everywhere as others have pointed out. Ohtani is coming off TJ v2 so he's a DH. He will have to re-establish himself as a pitcher next year, likely but not a given. Yamamoto has to prove out, and Glasnow has to do something rare for him, stay in the rotation and off the injured list. And he's not the only question mark. Betts and Freeman have been the heart of the order but there are holes also. It's baseball so nothing's guaranteed. Stuff happens, it happened to the Dodgers last year as it did to the Red Sox. More stuff will happen this coming season. That you can bank on.
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Post by bosoxnation on Dec 22, 2023 1:39:31 GMT -5
Like i said before. Ohtani deferment was for YY. Who's picking us over the Dodgers. Nobody. Talent and Weather alone.They have studs everywhere. We don't even have a handful and they are willing to pay top dollar just makes it unfair at this point. There were quite a few teams offering those dollars. That's not what decided it. And they don't have studs everywhere as others have pointed out. Ohtani is coming off TJ v2 so he's a DH. He will have to re-establish himself as a pitcher next year, likely but not a given. Yamamoto has to prove out, and Glasnow has to do something rare for him, stay in the rotation and off the injured list. And he's not the only question mark. Betts and Freeman have been the heart of the order but there are holes also. It's baseball so nothing's guaranteed. Stuff happens, it happened to the Dodgers last year as it did to the Red Sox. More stuff will happen this coming season. That you can bank on. Yeah buddy. That's just flat out denial. We are a joke. Its almost Christmas and we've spent less money then the As after 2 last place finishes. Dodgers just spent over 1 billion dollars. Weve spent 1 million. They have superstars. We dont even have stars. So yes the talent/weather and the fact they have blank checks for every top player is BS and MLB should step in.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 22, 2023 1:41:11 GMT -5
Keep watching...
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Post by bluechip on Dec 22, 2023 5:33:31 GMT -5
Like i said before. Ohtani deferment was for YY. Who's picking us over the Dodgers. Nobody. Talent and Weather alone.They have studs everywhere. We don't even have a handful and they are willing to pay top dollar just makes it unfair at this point. I'm inclined to agree about there being an unfair quality it seems like the league office needs to address. The current stacking of talent via deferment is clearly thwarting the intended balance the CBA is supposed to maintain. Feels like the Dodgers should be punished severely. How can the league office address or punish this when it’s allowed under the CBA? Any change to the rules requires union agreement.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,403
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Post by radiohix on Dec 22, 2023 5:54:50 GMT -5
It seems like YY really wanted to pitch for LA, that's why he got back to them with the Mets offer. I can't fault the Red Sox for their lack of effort, I just hope they don't panic and offer a crazy contract to Montgomery/Snell or an insane prospects package for the likes of Burnes/Luzardo.
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Post by semperfisox on Dec 22, 2023 7:05:27 GMT -5
Pain
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Post by sierram363 on Dec 22, 2023 8:04:44 GMT -5
I fully expect Red Sox brass to over pay and panic sign a second tier pitcher now. Too bad they could've just signed Nathan Eovaldi and Kodai Senga last year on bargain contracts.
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Post by ephus on Dec 22, 2023 8:26:44 GMT -5
Look everyone, this sucks. But no matter what happens we have a stocked farm system and still have a ton of money to spend. Don't look back, look forward and let's relish in our being the underdogs. Spend on who at this point? Is this an honest question? With the top arm off the market and Snell reportedly leaning SF, there are many ways forward. None as “perfect” as YY because they will either be older or cost more in prospects; but adding two pitchers that add somewhere around 4.0 - 4.4 WAR would be huge for this term’s entire staff. And you can do it, likely for less money, which will allow the team to continue to add during the season. It may look dark now, but trust me the days are getting longer.
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Post by anthonyd616 on Dec 22, 2023 8:33:01 GMT -5
There were quite a few teams offering those dollars. That's not what decided it. And they don't have studs everywhere as others have pointed out. Ohtani is coming off TJ v2 so he's a DH. He will have to re-establish himself as a pitcher next year, likely but not a given. Yamamoto has to prove out, and Glasnow has to do something rare for him, stay in the rotation and off the injured list. And he's not the only question mark. Betts and Freeman have been the heart of the order but there are holes also. It's baseball so nothing's guaranteed. Stuff happens, it happened to the Dodgers last year as it did to the Red Sox. More stuff will happen this coming season. That you can bank on. Yeah buddy. That's just flat out denial. We are a joke. Its almost Christmas and we've spent less money then the As after 2 last place finishes. Dodgers just spent over 1 billion dollars. Weve spent 1 million. They have superstars. We dont even have stars. So yes the talent/weather and the fact they have blank checks for every top player is BS and MLB should step in. How come nobody points out the obvious? The Sox ( albeit JH is cheap ) have had a tougher time signing or retaining any free agents at all since the state of Massachusetts started that extra " millionaire's tax ". Even though players have to file taxes in every state that they play in, its better to file taxes for 6, 9 or however many road games that you play in Massachusetts, if you're not on a star studded team. California has high taxes but by signing all the talent that they have, they can recruit like a Duke in college basketball ( a chance to win a ring every year ). Let's face it, when the offers are close to the same money, the players are going to go where they have the best chance of winning and if they're business minded, keeping more or their money ( Eovaldi )
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Post by greenmonster on Dec 22, 2023 8:44:42 GMT -5
At least now….I can sleep. You and Merloni, both
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 22, 2023 8:47:37 GMT -5
Yeah buddy. That's just flat out denial. We are a joke. Its almost Christmas and we've spent less money then the As after 2 last place finishes. Dodgers just spent over 1 billion dollars. Weve spent 1 million. They have superstars. We dont even have stars. So yes the talent/weather and the fact they have blank checks for every top player is BS and MLB should step in. How come nobody points out the obvious? The Sox ( albeit JH is cheap ) have had a tougher time signing or retaining any free agents at all since the state of Massachusetts started that extra " millionaire's tax ". Even though players have to file taxes in every state that they play in, its better to file taxes for 6, 9 or however many road games that you play in Massachusetts, if you're not on a star studded team. California has high taxes but by signing all the talent that they have, they can recruit like a Duke in college basketball ( a chance to win a ring every year ). Let's face it, when the offers are close to the same money, the players are going to go where they have the best chance of winning and if they're business minded, keeping more or their money ( Eovaldi ) No one is pointing that out because literally every one of Yamamoto’s options was in a super high tax state, most of them higher than Boston, so taxes seemingly were not a big factor in his decision
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Post by dcb26 on Dec 22, 2023 8:51:56 GMT -5
The angst over the Dodgers is pretty funny to me. Well run team with likeable players who have made themselves an attractive destination and are willing to invest when the right players become available. And ask a Dodgers fan how unfair all of their "success" over the rest of the league has been.
The two complaints I keep seeing that seem really off the mark: "The deferred money is a competitive advantage" - no it isn't. The Ohtani contract is a 10/460 contract and they are paying every bit of that the same as any other team would. People need to read up (there have to be 20 pages on this forum alone) on how this works.
"The Dodgers are proving money/finances don't matter" - they are proving how much it DOES matter. They are able to go on this spending spree specifically because they have been so disciplined with their finances while maintaining a top team.
I'm not going to suddenly start rooting for the Dodgers or anything, but I can certainly respect what they're doing without thinking it's unfair that my team didn't do it first (again?)
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 22, 2023 8:55:15 GMT -5
Watching the Celtics is easing my angst about the Red Sox "activities". I'll start paying closer attention when spring training begins.
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Post by manfred on Dec 22, 2023 9:10:06 GMT -5
Yeah buddy. That's just flat out denial. We are a joke. Its almost Christmas and we've spent less money then the As after 2 last place finishes. Dodgers just spent over 1 billion dollars. Weve spent 1 million. They have superstars. We dont even have stars. So yes the talent/weather and the fact they have blank checks for every top player is BS and MLB should step in. How come nobody points out the obvious? The Sox ( albeit JH is cheap ) have had a tougher time signing or retaining any free agents at all since the state of Massachusetts started that extra " millionaire's tax ". Even though players have to file taxes in every state that they play in, its better to file taxes for 6, 9 or however many road games that you play in Massachusetts, if you're not on a star studded team. California has high taxes but by signing all the talent that they have, they can recruit like a Duke in college basketball ( a chance to win a ring every year ). Let's face it, when the offers are close to the same money, the players are going to go where they have the best chance of winning and if they're business minded, keeping more or their money ( Eovaldi ) If this were it, Ohtani would be a Mariner. No income tax. People seem to be taking this far harder than you should. It is fine… guy took scads of money to play in a big market with less pressure and a high chance of winning. Oh well. Move on. There is a decent chance the difference between him and Montgomery (for example) is not so massive that this is some tragedy. There is also every indication the Sox made a big offer… so the “cheap” narrative seems out. They just lost out. As did everyone but the Dodgers. Onward.
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Post by costpet on Dec 22, 2023 9:13:09 GMT -5
I think you owe me a pat on the back.
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Post by gcwilliams on Dec 22, 2023 9:31:39 GMT -5
I don't think people are upset about the Dodgers potentially winning a ton of World Series rings in the next few years, I think people are just upset that a team can sign all of the top players and apparently the financials just don't matter. You can argue whether it's good or bad for the game, but it is frustrating that any time a player says "I like LA", you just know that he's signing with the Dodgers.
Could the Red Sox shell out 325 over 12 years? Sure, but players are clearly choosing LA for other reasons, and the Dodgers don't seem to be swayed by the luxury tax at all.
Regardless of who wins the World Series, baseball is less fun when one team buys up all the stars in a single off-season.
An entire system attempting to keep any vague semblance of competitive balance in the sport has been negotiated and re-negotiated over decades now. The Dodgers are breaking that system with their current actions. The sport is broken with this most recent trash move. They should have something massive done to their organization like forfeiting their top ten picks for five years, and their entire front office and ownership should be suspended for five years. The intent of the CBA is clear. If a team blows up their draft budget, there are repercussions. If they exceed the tax thresholds there are repercussions. There damn well ought to be repercussions for colluding with a player to circumvent competitive balance design--it undermines the entire sport. ps, Ohtani is a loser. I've lost all respect for him. He tried to join Trout to make a super team and failed, now he wants to undermine the entire sport of baseball to get a ring. Zero integrity.
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Post by gcwilliams on Dec 22, 2023 9:38:09 GMT -5
The Dodgers did nothing wrong and acted completely within the parameters set forth and agreed to by MLB and the MLBPA. What's unfair is that some teams are penalized for spending to improve while other teams are rewarded for sucking. If the sport is broken, blame MLB. The truth is MLB doesn't want the system to be fair; they want it to make money for the owners, period, full stop.
GW
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Post by anthonyd616 on Dec 22, 2023 9:54:13 GMT -5
How come nobody points out the obvious? The Sox ( albeit JH is cheap ) have had a tougher time signing or retaining any free agents at all since the state of Massachusetts started that extra " millionaire's tax ". Even though players have to file taxes in every state that they play in, its better to file taxes for 6, 9 or however many road games that you play in Massachusetts, if you're not on a star studded team. California has high taxes but by signing all the talent that they have, they can recruit like a Duke in college basketball ( a chance to win a ring every year ). Let's face it, when the offers are close to the same money, the players are going to go where they have the best chance of winning and if they're business minded, keeping more or their money ( Eovaldi ) If this were it, Ohtani would be a Mariner. No income tax. People seem to be taking this far harder than you should. It is fine… guy took scads of money to play in a big market with less pressure and a high chance of winning. Oh well. Move on. There is a decent chance the difference between him and Montgomery (for example) is not so massive that this is some tragedy. There is also every indication the Sox made a big offer… so the “cheap” narrative seems out. They just lost out. As did everyone but the Dodgers. Onward. Seattle isn't as close to winning in Ohtani's mind as LAD is but from a purely business standpoint, Seattle, Texas, Houston, and either Florida team makes more business sense than the Mets, Yankees, or any high tax state team where a player would play 81 games. Ohtani's deal circumvents that because he's only getting taxed in CA, because it's after his playing years are over.
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