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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 7, 2023 2:30:14 GMT -5
Dude is giving some people Fitts, and he hasn't even taken the mound yet.
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Post by bosoxnation on Dec 7, 2023 2:46:29 GMT -5
Hopefully DICK can field because as one of the most horrific teams defensively. We just gave up our best defensive player!
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Post by keninten on Dec 7, 2023 2:50:11 GMT -5
I really don`t understand why the yankees wanted verdugo. Fitts and Weissert as depth for them seems more a need. They need pitching more than 3 LHH OFer`s with judge on the right side. Judge shouldn`t be playing any CF probably RF. So is grisham it for CF? soto in LF? stanton will do most of the DHing. So verdugo is mainly depth in the OF. They still need pitching and hopefully will tie up more big money and be hamstrung for years. Could they even afford soto after this year? It`s hard to believe they got one of the best young hitters in the game and it might bite them in the butt.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 7, 2023 7:02:40 GMT -5
Everything needs to be taken as a collective, but if Verdugo's money isn't the difference in getting a player like Yamamoto, the prospects don't amount to much, and Verdugo is a plus player for a divisional rival and you're not trying to "reload" and actually compete then this year should be viewed negatively against Breslow. I would rather get nothing than help a division rival get more wins. As of right now, I don't care about this trade one way or the other and don't feel like it'll bite them. It's a bit long off a way to say that there's no risk or no lose. He'll be motivated in a walk year. This is exactly what i was telling my buddy. You trade a guy with an edge whos going into a walk year which usually means that player will have the best year of his career. He was our 5th best player in WAR. We got nobody who will be top 15 on our team in WAR. I just dont get it. Were so desprite were all hanging our hat on a player because of his name. Dick Fitts. Yankees are laughing in our face. This is the first time in my life at 33 im literally embarrassed as a RS fan. We have no direction. No direction? Breslow has been in the job a month. He hasn’t even had time to hang pictures in his office. I’d pump the brakes on judging his direction.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 7, 2023 7:07:00 GMT -5
I really don`t understand why the yankees wanted verdugo. Fitts and Weissert as depth for them seems more a need. They need pitching more than 3 LHH OFer`s with judge on the right side. Judge shouldn`t be playing any CF probably RF. So is grisham it for CF? soto in LF? stanton will do most of the DHing. So verdugo is mainly depth in the OF. They still need pitching and hopefully will tie up more big money and be hamstrung for years. Could they even afford soto after this year? It`s hard to believe they got one of the best young hitters in the game and it might bite them in the butt. The Yankees wanted 2 lefty outfielders. The defensive alignment will be rough but they know it's a matter of time before Stanton gets hurt and then they can fix the defense with Grisham in CF and one of Judge or Soto as a DH and the other in RF.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 7, 2023 7:07:44 GMT -5
Everything needs to be taken as a collective, but if Verdugo's money isn't the difference in getting a player like Yamamoto, the prospects don't amount to much, and Verdugo is a plus player for a divisional rival and you're not trying to "reload" and actually compete then this year should be viewed negatively against Breslow. I would rather get nothing than help a division rival get more wins. As of right now, I don't care about this trade one way or the other and don't feel like it'll bite them. It's a bit long off a way to say that there's no risk or no lose. He'll be motivated in a walk year. This is exactly what i was telling my buddy. You trade a guy with an edge whos going into a walk year which usually means that player will have the best year of his career. He was our 5th best player in WAR. We got nobody who will be top 15 on our team in WAR. I just dont get it. Were so desprite were all hanging our hat on a player because of his name. Dick Fitts. Yankees are laughing in our face. This is the first time in my life at 33 im literally embarrassed as a RS fan. We have no direction. I think that's a bit strong over Verdugo. He seems to have wasted some of his talent and if he's capable of being locked in for 1 year, it could bite them, but career wise he hasn't shown much to believe he'll be more than a 2.5 win guy. Him living up to his potential would be very bad though. I'd be more embarrassed if they don't get Yamamoto and Montgomery. Two years we were told about resetting the tax. They've done it. They have a lot of free money. Go get the big names. Especially at their ages.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 7, 2023 7:15:21 GMT -5
I anticipate Verdugo will get off to his usual blazing hot start. At some point he will go on his vacation where he does nothing but hit grounders to the 2b.
I do think though with this being his walk year, and it being obvious the Sox wanted to dump him, I do think Verdugo will put together his best season. I can see him hitting .290 with 15 plus HRs.
Then hes a free agent. Bu 2025 the Yankees have Dominguez returning as their CF and they're kind of locked into Stanton as DH, which puts Judge and Soto in the corners. Verdugo will wind up a 1 year stop gap with the Yankees and he'll land elsewhere in 2025 as a free agent.
Meanwhile the Yankees solve a 2024 issue for 3 pitchers who project as fringy with Fitts having sone variability left as to his future whether it's a 3rd starter, a back end starter or a reliever.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 7, 2023 7:46:15 GMT -5
Hopefully DICK can field because as one of the most horrific teams defensively. We just gave up our best defensive player! We traded Trevor Story?
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 7, 2023 7:50:13 GMT -5
I know I went to the dark side yesterday in a post so I sort of get it but some folks need to take a little bit of a step back. This offseason has barely just started so I am confused why some folks seem to be acting like the roster as of today is who the Sox will be rolling out on opening day?
I'm definitely down on their hopes after Soto to the Yankees but we need to see what else the Sox roster is working with for 2024 and we won't know the full picture for several months.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Dec 7, 2023 7:51:59 GMT -5
I anticipate Verdugo will get off to his usual blazing hot start. At some point he will go on his vacation where he does nothing but hit grounders to the 2b. I do think though with this being his walk year, and it being obvious the Sox wanted to dump him, I do think Verdugo will put together his best season. I can see him hitting .290 with 15 plus HRs. Then hes a free agent. Bu 2025 the Yankees have Dominguez returning as their CF and they're kind of locked into Stanton as DH, which puts Judge and Soto in the corners. Verdugo will wind up a 1 year stop gap with the Yankees and he'll land elsewhere in 2025 as a free agent. Meanwhile the Yankees solve a 2024 issue for 3 pitchers who project as fringy with Fitts having sone variability left as to his future whether it's a 3rd starter, a back end starter or a reliever. Duh, yeah. EVERY minor leaguer has some variability left in his future, until he reaches the Majors and we start to see what that future turns out to be. Doesn't Marcelo Mayer have variability left as to what he will be in the future? Roman Anthony? Bleis (especially)? Etc. etc. etc.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 7, 2023 8:02:22 GMT -5
I anticipate Verdugo will get off to his usual blazing hot start. At some point he will go on his vacation where he does nothing but hit grounders to the 2b. I do think though with this being his walk year, and it being obvious the Sox wanted to dump him, I do think Verdugo will put together his best season. I can see him hitting .290 with 15 plus HRs. Then hes a free agent. Bu 2025 the Yankees have Dominguez returning as their CF and they're kind of locked into Stanton as DH, which puts Judge and Soto in the corners. Verdugo will wind up a 1 year stop gap with the Yankees and he'll land elsewhere in 2025 as a free agent. Meanwhile the Yankees solve a 2024 issue for 3 pitchers who project as fringy with Fitts having sone variability left as to his future whether it's a 3rd starter, a back end starter or a reliever. Duh, yeah. EVERY minor leaguer has some variability left in his future, until he reaches the Majors and we start to see what that future turns out to be. Doesn't Marcelo Mayer have variability left as to what he will be in the future? Roman Anthony? Bleis (especially)? Etc. etc. etc. I didnt know the right word to use. Weissert is likely up a down depth reliever. Dont expect him to be handling the 8th innings with the lead. The draftee they got isnt likely to amount to much. Fitts is the prize of the deal. My guess is he winds up a 5th starter type but there's still hope for him to be a mid rotation starter among his backers. His detractors still see reliever and others see back end starter. So I used variability as the word. I dont see much chance that Weissert winds up being a reliable reliever as his lack of control will undermine him. The 6 foot 8 kid is just a lotto ticket. Dont expect much from that. I feel certainty with those 2 but not as certain with Fitts. My gut is that hes a 5th starter type, will get knocked around, but wont beat himself. I'm not expecting him to actually become a workhorse #3 or good #4 starter, but the possibility is still there. That's what I'm trying to say. As far as Mayer goes, if he stays healthy, I think he'll be an above average SS who will make the all star team a number of times.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 7, 2023 8:13:53 GMT -5
One breakdown of Fitts I saw said if he develops a 3rd pitch he's a top 100 prospect, obviously it's not as easy as just saying hey Fittsy work on that change-up but he's a guy who will likely start the year at AAA who has two ML caliber pitches in his FB and SL and good command/control. The hope is obviously that he does develop that 3rd pitch and becomes a viable 3/4 starter but even if he doesn't by the sounds of it he has a good chance to be a high leverage reliever which is nothing to sneeze at for one year of Verdugo. Maybe he ends up taking on a 2021 Whitlock type of role which has its value too.
The more I think about it and look into Fitts, I'd probably have been alright with him being the only piece acquired for Verdugo. It really seems like Verdugo didn't have much value. Weissert as others have said is an up and down reliever but I believe I read he has 2 options left and there's something there with his slider. The 6 foot 8 kid who knows, but he was ranked 175th in MLB.com draft rankings so basically he's a free draft pick.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 7, 2023 8:22:26 GMT -5
One breakdown of Fitts I saw said if he develops a 3rd pitch he's a top 100 prospect, obviously it's not as easy as just saying hey Fittsy work on that change-up but he's a guy who will likely start the year at AAA who has two ML caliber pitches in his FB and SL and good command/control. The hope is obviously that he does develop that 3rd pitch and becomes a viable 3/4 starter but even if he doesn't by the sounds of it he has a good chance to be a high leverage reliever which is nothing to sneeze at for one year of Verdugo. Maybe he ends up taking on a 2021 Whitlock type of role which has its value too. The more I think about it and look into Fitts, I'd probably have been alright with him being the only piece acquired for Verdugo. It really seems like Verdugo didn't have much value. Weissert as others have said is an up and down reliever but I believe I read he has 2 options left and there's something there with his slider. The 6 foot 8 kid who knows, but he was ranked 175th in MLB.com draft rankings so basically he's a free draft pick. I think that the deal shows that Breslow and Cora are more on the same page. If the Sox sign Maldonado, I hope they dont, but if they do I'm sure that was a Cora endorsed move and Cora has a connection to the Gurriels as well so if Lourdes comes their way you know Breslow and Cora are working in lockstep. I dont know if this is good or bad. On one hand I think the PoBO should be working together but it could make it look like Cora is telling Breslow who to get and who to dump, although I'm sure the "dump Verdugo" thing was hardly a secret. Bloom refused to do so and I'm sure it widened the rift between Cora and Bloom.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 7, 2023 9:17:37 GMT -5
Hopefully DICK can field because as one of the most horrific teams defensively. We just gave up our best defensive player! We traded Trevor Story? Better check the “Trevor Story traded to Orix Buffaloes as part of YY acquisition” thread…
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Post by edge4414 on Dec 7, 2023 10:49:07 GMT -5
One breakdown of Fitts I saw said if he develops a 3rd pitch he's a top 100 prospect, obviously it's not as easy as just saying hey Fittsy work on that change-up but he's a guy who will likely start the year at AAA who has two ML caliber pitches in his FB and SL and good command/control. The hope is obviously that he does develop that 3rd pitch and becomes a viable 3/4 starter but even if he doesn't by the sounds of it he has a good chance to be a high leverage reliever which is nothing to sneeze at for one year of Verdugo. Maybe he ends up taking on a 2021 Whitlock type of role which has its value too. The more I think about it and look into Fitts, I'd probably have been alright with him being the only piece acquired for Verdugo. It really seems like Verdugo didn't have much value. Weissert as others have said is an up and down reliever but I believe I read he has 2 options left and there's something there with his slider. The 6 foot 8 kid who knows, but he was ranked 175th in MLB.com draft rankings so basically he's a free draft pick. I "think" the same breakdown you refer to said he had a Plus Plus fastball. I don't see how someone that mostly sits at 93/94 is anything more than an average or slightly above fastball in today's game. There are so many differing opinions on the return the Sox received and the Yankees knew what they had to give the Padres (pitching) for Soto, so I can't imagine they placed any value on these players. From a top 100 player to mid relievers is a wide spread of opinion. I think we are all in a wait and see position. On another note I believe he was a #12 prospect in the NYY system but MLB just put him at #10 in Boston's system. Not sure I follow that logic assuming I'm correct that Boston has a better and deeper prospect pool. I know it's not a big difference but I would've expected something lower. Any opinions on this?
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 7, 2023 12:26:56 GMT -5
One breakdown of Fitts I saw said if he develops a 3rd pitch he's a top 100 prospect, obviously it's not as easy as just saying hey Fittsy work on that change-up but he's a guy who will likely start the year at AAA who has two ML caliber pitches in his FB and SL and good command/control. The hope is obviously that he does develop that 3rd pitch and becomes a viable 3/4 starter but even if he doesn't by the sounds of it he has a good chance to be a high leverage reliever which is nothing to sneeze at for one year of Verdugo. Maybe he ends up taking on a 2021 Whitlock type of role which has its value too. The more I think about it and look into Fitts, I'd probably have been alright with him being the only piece acquired for Verdugo. It really seems like Verdugo didn't have much value. Weissert as others have said is an up and down reliever but I believe I read he has 2 options left and there's something there with his slider. The 6 foot 8 kid who knows, but he was ranked 175th in MLB.com draft rankings so basically he's a free draft pick. I "think" the same breakdown you refer to said he had a Plus Plus fastball. I don't see how someone that mostly sits at 93/94 is anything more than an average or slightly above fastball in today's game. There are so many differing opinions on the return the Sox received and the Yankees knew what they had to give the Padres (pitching) for Soto, so I can't imagine they placed any value on these players. From a top 100 player to mid relievers is a wide spread of opinion. I think we are all in a wait and see position. On another note I believe he was a #12 prospect in the NYY system but MLB just put him at #10 in Boston's system. Not sure I follow that logic assuming I'm correct that Boston has a better and deeper prospect pool. I know it's not a big difference but I would've expected something lower. Any opinions on this? What he is referencing is from Fangraphs and I quoted on page 6 of this thread and it says he has plus plus fastball command, not a plus plus fastball.
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nomar
Veteran
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2023 12:32:08 GMT -5
Pitching is so hard to predict. There are plenty of pitchers with plus command and a low to mid 90s fastball that aren’t hailed as great prospects but find a way to be a top 30 SP. The Red Sox are in on one of those types right now in free agency
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Post by keninten on Dec 7, 2023 13:02:18 GMT -5
I really don`t understand why the yankees wanted verdugo. Fitts and Weissert as depth for them seems more a need. They need pitching more than 3 LHH OFer`s with judge on the right side. Judge shouldn`t be playing any CF probably RF. So is grisham it for CF? soto in LF? stanton will do most of the DHing. So verdugo is mainly depth in the OF. They still need pitching and hopefully will tie up more big money and be hamstrung for years. Could they even afford soto after this year? It`s hard to believe they got one of the best young hitters in the game and it might bite them in the butt. The Yankees wanted 2 lefty outfielders. The defensive alignment will be rough but they know it's a matter of time before Stanton gets hurt and then they can fix the defense with Grisham in CF and one of Judge or Soto as a DH and the other in RF. So why did they get three?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2023 13:04:34 GMT -5
The Yankees wanted 2 lefty outfielders. The defensive alignment will be rough but they know it's a matter of time before Stanton gets hurt and then they can fix the defense with Grisham in CF and one of Judge or Soto as a DH and the other in RF. So why did they get three? Grisham has a reverse split to be fair. Honestly considering their stadium they did a phenomenal job putting together an amazing outfield IMO, with the caveat that Judge will be playing a lot of CF and has an injury history.
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Post by keninten on Dec 7, 2023 13:09:23 GMT -5
So why did they get three? Grisham has a reverse split to be fair. Honestly considering their stadium they did a phenomenal job putting together an amazing outfield IMO, with the caveat that Judge will be playing a lot of CF and has an injury history. They have done good building their OF but their pitching depth is atrocious. Giving up Fitts who is just depth seems more of a need to them. It`s still early but I like that they are getting rid of pitching so far.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 7, 2023 13:13:46 GMT -5
The Yankees wanted 2 lefty outfielders. The defensive alignment will be rough but they know it's a matter of time before Stanton gets hurt and then they can fix the defense with Grisham in CF and one of Judge or Soto as a DH and the other in RF. So why did they get three? They got two starting outfielders who are lefties in Soto and Verdugo. Grisham is not there for his LH bat. He cant hit his way out of a paper bag. He draws walks and most importantly plays a solid CF. Hes the 4th OF but he'll get plenty of action whether its allowing Soto or Judge to DH occasionally, coming in for late game defensive improvements or simply playing regularly when Stanton gets injured.
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Post by pappyman99 on Dec 7, 2023 14:10:07 GMT -5
Again who really cares. I hate the Yankees but it’s not 1999
Yankees are not who we are chasing. Not yet at least.
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Post by bcsox on Dec 7, 2023 14:15:24 GMT -5
I am having a hard time determining what is expected fair value for one year of Dugo. What were the expectations?
There seems to be multiple posts that suggest “MY CONCERN…is that Fitts is only a 5th starter.
If Fitts becomes a league average 5th starter, taking that plus years of control and getting rid of 9plus million on the books, is that not a win for the RS? Is it a loss? A slight one, a big one? Something even?
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nomar
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Posts: 10,916
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Post by nomar on Dec 7, 2023 14:29:39 GMT -5
I am having a hard time determining what is expected fair value for one year of Dugo. What were the expectations? There seems to be multiple posts that suggest “MY CONCERN…is that Fitts is only a 5th starter. If Fitts becomes a league average 5th starter, taking that plus years of control and getting rid of 9plus million on the books, is that not a win for the RS? Is it a loss? A slight one, a big one? Something even? The lines between 1-5 are way blurrier now than ever too. What is a 5th starter? In 2023 only 58 starters reached 150 IP. 5 years ago 78 did. 5 years before that 96 did. If you’re good enough to log that many innings today even with an ERA in the 4-5 range, that’s very valuable regardless of which number of the rotation you slot into.
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Post by lennsakata on Dec 7, 2023 14:49:24 GMT -5
I really am intrigued by Judice. 80-81 in high school to 89-91 early in his college career to 92-95 mph last year in college and reportedly touching 100, seemingly at random...which tells me there is more in the tank. I was reading one of this reports that say he is also not incorporating his lower half much at all. Between the possibility of additional velocity gains, the slider being promising...just run him out there for 3-4 innings and see if he can get a feel for a change-up, if not, I imagine he could move quickly in a pen with the fastball/slider but I'd like to see a guy like that start for some short bursts and work on command and the change.
Also, off topic but where do we think the last Yankee trade acquisition, Diego Hernandez, will start this year if he's ready to go? Wasn't sure if he would likely stay in the DSL or move up to the FCL? Did not see him on a projected roster.
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