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Verdugo Traded To Yankees
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 7, 2023 14:52:46 GMT -5
I am having a hard time determining what is expected fair value for one year of Dugo. What were the expectations? There seems to be multiple posts that suggest “MY CONCERN…is that Fitts is only a 5th starter. If Fitts becomes a league average 5th starter, taking that plus years of control and getting rid of 9plus million on the books, is that not a win for the RS? Is it a loss? A slight one, a big one? Something even? If he's a fifth, then I think I'd rather just take the draft pick, assuming they thought they could offer him arbitration and he would walk elsewhere. I know this is more of a safe option. If they actually splurge then I'll credit this trade as helping get Yamamoto. It shouldn't matter to them, but I'll give them extra credit.
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Post by bosox904 on Dec 7, 2023 15:05:49 GMT -5
I am having a hard time determining what is expected fair value for one year of Dugo. What were the expectations? There seems to be multiple posts that suggest “MY CONCERN…is that Fitts is only a 5th starter. If Fitts becomes a league average 5th starter, taking that plus years of control and getting rid of 9plus million on the books, is that not a win for the RS? Is it a loss? A slight one, a big one? Something even? If he's a fifth, then I think I'd rather just take the draft pick, assuming they thought they could offer him arbitration and he would walk elsewhere. I know this is more of a safe option. If they actually splurge then I'll credit this trade as helping get Yamamoto. It shouldn't matter to them, but I'll give them extra credit. I think the chances they would have offered him a qualifying offer was slim.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Dec 7, 2023 15:13:53 GMT -5
I am having a hard time determining what is expected fair value for one year of Dugo. What were the expectations? There seems to be multiple posts that suggest “MY CONCERN…is that Fitts is only a 5th starter. If Fitts becomes a league average 5th starter, taking that plus years of control and getting rid of 9plus million on the books, is that not a win for the RS? Is it a loss? A slight one, a big one? Something even? If he's a fifth, then I think I'd rather just take the draft pick, assuming they thought they could offer him arbitration and he would walk elsewhere. I know this is more of a safe option. If they actually splurge then I'll credit this trade as helping get Yamamoto. It shouldn't matter to them, but I'll give them extra credit. If one of these guys makes 25+ starts in a season, even as a “fifth,” I will view this as a big win. That is a major asset.
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Post by yuchangclan on Dec 7, 2023 15:50:18 GMT -5
Again who really cares. I hate the Yankees but it’s not 1999 Yankees are not who we are chasing. Not yet at least. The Yankees are the team that finished directly ahead of the Sox in the standings last year. The Sox are ABSOLUTELY chasing them.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 7, 2023 15:55:42 GMT -5
Again who really cares. I hate the Yankees but it’s not 1999 Yankees are not who we are chasing. Not yet at least. The Yankees are the team that finished directly ahead of the Sox in the standings last year. The Sox are ABSOLUTELY chasing them. that was last year... so again who cares
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Post by yuchangclan on Dec 7, 2023 15:58:03 GMT -5
With all the talk about Verdugo having a “career year” in his walk year, I’m a bit skeptical. Is he anything more than a platoon guy at the moment? With Judge, Soto, Stanton, Gresham, Verdugo and one of the Oswald/Oswaldo brothers, the Yankees seem to have a lot of options out there. I wouldn’t expect Verdugo to see much action against lefties??? He could still mash against RHP, but he might only start 120-130 games, as well.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 7, 2023 15:58:56 GMT -5
The Yankees didn't even make the playoffs last year either so IMO they aren't who the Sox are chasing. The Sox are chasing the likes of Toronto, Tampa, Baltimore Houston and the Rangers.
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Post by yuchangclan on Dec 7, 2023 16:25:13 GMT -5
The Yankees are the team that finished directly ahead of the Sox in the standings last year. The Sox are ABSOLUTELY chasing them. that was last year... so again who cares Well…if you want to make the playoffs(if that is even the goal), they need to finish ahead of 1 or 2 of the teams in their division. So, who are those teams going to be?
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 7, 2023 20:26:07 GMT -5
I am having a hard time determining what is expected fair value for one year of Dugo. What were the expectations? There seems to be multiple posts that suggest “MY CONCERN…is that Fitts is only a 5th starter. If Fitts becomes a league average 5th starter, taking that plus years of control and getting rid of 9plus million on the books, is that not a win for the RS? Is it a loss? A slight one, a big one? Something even? The lines between 1-5 are way blurrier now than ever too. What is a 5th starter? In 2023 only 58 starters reached 150 IP. 5 years ago 78 did. 5 years before that 96 did. If you’re good enough to log that many innings today even with an ERA in the 4-5 range, that’s very valuable regardless of which number of the rotation you slot into. Part of me agrees but my gut (the biggest part) tells me that this is how you end up throwing too many bullpen games until your bullpen inevitably blows a gasket and you spend September by the side of the road watching everyone pass you. I’d really like it if the Breslow-Bailey Pitching Academy can develop at least one of the young starters into a consistent 6-7 IP pitcher.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 7, 2023 20:51:27 GMT -5
Again who really cares. I hate the Yankees but it’s not 1999 Yankees are not who we are chasing. Not yet at least. The Yankees are the team that finished directly ahead of the Sox in the standings last year. The Sox are ABSOLUTELY chasing them. You are being to literal. We are not competing for fourth place.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Dec 7, 2023 21:19:01 GMT -5
The Yankees are the team that finished directly ahead of the Sox in the standings last year. The Sox are ABSOLUTELY chasing them. You are being to literal. We are not competing for fourth place. Of course, no one is competing for fourth place. But every team in the division is better positioned than the Red Sox are currently. Yankees were the closest team we could catch and they've added Verdugo and one of the five best hitters in the game, already.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 7, 2023 21:44:54 GMT -5
You are being to literal. We are not competing for fourth place. Of course, no one is competing for fourth place. But every team in the division is better positioned than the Red Sox are currently. Yankees were the closest team we could catch and they've added Verdugo and one of the five best hitters in the game, already. Besides missing the point, your making your point at an early snap shot in the off-season. You might as well say the sky is falling. For Pete's sake at least let the off-season play out before declaring the sky is falling.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Dec 7, 2023 22:43:40 GMT -5
Of course, no one is competing for fourth place. But every team in the division is better positioned than the Red Sox are currently. Yankees were the closest team we could catch and they've added Verdugo and one of the five best hitters in the game, already. Besides missing the point, your making your point at an early snap shot in the off-season. You might as well say the sky is falling. For Pete's sake at least let the off-season play out before declaring the sky is falling. Red Sox fan optimism on this forum has been very odd to me lately. Between another last place finish, a new GM, no additions a month in, Breslow feeling surprised that the Winter Meetings did not go as far as he wanted, losing a large number of players in the Rule 5 Draft, and our greatest rival acquiring Juan Soto, things don't seem so hot in Boston at the moment.
I have long been on the "it's a process" line of thought, but after four years of rebuilding, it's actually time to have urgency like the ownership claimed they would when Breslow was hired.
This complacency is really weird.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 7, 2023 22:56:08 GMT -5
Besides missing the point, your making your point at an early snap shot in the off-season. You might as well say the sky is falling. For Pete's sake at least let the off-season play out before declaring the sky is falling. Red Sox fan optimism on this forum has been very odd to me lately. Between another last place finish, a new GM, no additions a month in, Breslow feeling surprised that the Winter Meetings did not go as far as he wanted, losing a large number of players in the Rule 5 Draft, and our greatest rival acquiring Juan Soto, things don't seem so hot in Boston at the moment.
I have long been on the "it's a process" line of thought, but after four years of rebuilding, it's actually time to have urgency like the ownership claimed they would when Breslow was hired.
This complacency is really weird.
You’re confusing patience and maturity with complacency.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 7, 2023 22:57:12 GMT -5
Besides missing the point, your making your point at an early snap shot in the off-season. You might as well say the sky is falling. For Pete's sake at least let the off-season play out before declaring the sky is falling. Red Sox fan optimism on this forum has been very odd to me lately. Between another last place finish, a new GM, no additions a month in, Breslow feeling surprised that the Winter Meetings did not go as far as he wanted, losing a large number of players in the Rule 5 Draft, and our greatest rival acquiring Juan Soto, things don't seem so hot in Boston at the moment.
I have long been on the "it's a process" line of thought, but after four years of rebuilding, it's actually time to have urgency like the ownership claimed they would when Breslow was hired.
This complacency is really weird.
No additions a month in? Come on dude. Literally every starting pitcher is still on the market. you are better than parroting sports talk bs.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 7, 2023 23:02:41 GMT -5
Not going to keep asking to stop the stupid arguments about what someone did or did not say. Just move on.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 8, 2023 0:46:59 GMT -5
Been on the road only to get where I was going, check in, and... the back and forth hasn't changed! We do need to show at least a little patience before getting the knives out and going after each other.
The FO has provided a well-provisioned bull pen so far. Let's see who inhabits starter-land when all is said and done.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 8, 2023 0:49:14 GMT -5
Been on the road only to get where I was going, check in, and... the back and forth hasn't changed! We do need to show at least a little patience before getting the knives out and going after each other. The FO has provided a well-provisioned bull pen so far. Let's see who inhabits starter-land when all is said and done. Yup. I am fully ready to complain once starters come off the board and sign with other teams. That has not happened yet. So. I will not get my “pitchforks” out just yet.
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keninten
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Post by keninten on Dec 8, 2023 1:19:04 GMT -5
Been on the road only to get where I was going, check in, and... the back and forth hasn't changed! We do need to show at least a little patience before getting the knives out and going after each other. The FO has provided a well-provisioned bull pen so far. Let's see who inhabits starter-land when all is said and done. Doesn`t this happen pretty much every winter. Especially when the Sox ended in last place. You can only slow it down. The Sox will have to be in first place at the All-Star break to slow it to a trickle. When I explain Red Sox fans to other baseball fans, I have always said their are basically two types of fans the optimist and the pessimist. Of course their are diferent degrees. My dad was a pessimist and I was an optimist. Our conversations would mirror these forums. I became a fan in 1966 at 8 years old. We disagreed a lot but I learned how easy I could be wrong, until 2004!!!
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 8, 2023 1:30:27 GMT -5
Other than the Yankees getting a generational talent virtually nothing happened at the winter meetings. I kind of felt bad for mlbnetwork as they were geared up to dissect all the action in which there was practically none. It was easily the most boring winter meetings slog I could remember.
Guess Ohtani is the first holdup, although I'm not sure who it affected beyond LA, and Toronto who seemingly pulled out of the Soto talks which makes me think their chances are better than I anticipated.
And the 2nd holdup is Yamamoto who will set the pitching market but wont be deciding for probably a couples of weeks, I'd guess just before x-mas when the league offices shut down. As an aside I remember the scoffing I received when I mentioned Yamamoto could exceed 7 years and might land in excess of 250 million. Would that shock anybody now? I figured ince the big market clubs got involved it could get crazy. I mean how many potential 25 year old aces have hit the market? I mean the Sox have John Lackey a t year deal for his ages 31 - 35 season? If pitchers get those ages covered why wouldnt ages 26 - 30 also get tacked on as well?
Even though I really fantasized about the Sox acquiring Soto which I knew wasnt happening and I figured the Yankees would get him, practically nobody else did anything either.
The hitters market should move next week.
The pitchers market might drag out until January.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 8, 2023 7:16:01 GMT -5
Been on the road only to get where I was going, check in, and... the back and forth hasn't changed! We do need to show at least a little patience before getting the knives out and going after each other. The FO has provided a well-provisioned bull pen so far. Let's see who inhabits starter-land when all is said and done. December 11, 2017: MVP Giancarlo Stanton and his giant contract is traded by the Miami Marlins to the New York Yankees for Starlin Castro, José Devers and Jorge Guzmán. He's had one decent year, and is signed through 2028. February 26, 2018: J.D. Martinez signed a five-year contract as a Free Agent with the Boston Red Sox.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 8, 2023 11:26:19 GMT -5
Been on the road only to get where I was going, check in, and... the back and forth hasn't changed! We do need to show at least a little patience before getting the knives out and going after each other. The FO has provided a well-provisioned bull pen so far. Let's see who inhabits starter-land when all is said and done. December 11, 2017: MVP Giancarlo Stanton and his giant contract is traded by the Miami Marlins to the New York Yankees for Starlin Castro, José Devers and Jorge Guzmán. He's had one decent year, and is signed through 2028. February 26, 2018: J.D. Martinez signed a five-year contract as a Free Agent with the Boston Red Sox. I always thought it was bizarre how the Yankees went after Stanton instead of JDM. He would have fit that park perfectly with all the fly balls to RF. I guess Yankees fans demand not only tons of HR, but they have to be 500 feet to mean anything.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 8, 2023 12:50:30 GMT -5
When they acquired Stanton he was coming off a season where he hit .281/.376/.631 and won MVP. The deal was completed a month after he turned 28. They got him for Starlin Castro. You're honestly confused about why he was in higher demand than JD Martinez?
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Post by fenwaydouble on Dec 8, 2023 12:53:29 GMT -5
When they acquired Stanton he was coming off a season where he hit .281/.376/.631. The deal was completed a month after he turned 28. They got him for Starlin Castro. You're honestly confused about why he was in higher demand than JD Martinez? It also came at a time when Stanton’s $300 million contract was a pretty huge outlier iirc. I remember being adamant that signing JD was a much better move for the Red Sox than trying to land Stanton because of the obvious back-end risk of that contract.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 8, 2023 12:58:51 GMT -5
When they acquired Stanton he was coming off a season where he hit .281/.376/.631. The deal was completed a month after he turned 28. They got him for Starlin Castro. You're honestly confused about why he was in higher demand than JD Martinez? It also came at a time when Stanton’s $300 million contract was a pretty huge outlier iirc. I remember being adamant that signing JD was a much better move for the Red Sox than trying to land Stanton because of the obvious back-end risk of that contract. Yeah I don’t think anyone thought the back end would be pretty, it’s just that the front end wasn’t either. I can’t believe he’s been there for 6 years already. He’s only been remotely worth his deal 2 of those 6, although he got very unlucky with his balls in play in 2022 too.
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