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2015 Boston Celtics Offseason
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Post by jmei on Jul 15, 2015 10:07:52 GMT -5
I think the Nets have the potential to be really, really bad. Lopez is injury-prone, and a 34-year-old Joe Johnson is reaching the age where sudden skill/athleticism collapse is a real possibility. The roster is thin, with two solid role players in J. Jack and T. Young but then a bunch of minimum salary types. I'd be surprised if they made they playoffs, though I agree that odds are they'll just be run-of-the-mill bad (rather than terrible) and end up with a pick in the 8-12 range.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 15, 2015 10:19:29 GMT -5
1. Atl 2. Clev 3. Chi 4. Wash 5. Tor 6. Mil 7. Boston Then you got Miami/BK/NYK/IND I don't know but hopefully Brookkyn won't be in that spot. Regardless, it needs to be a top 5 pick for it to really matter the way it needs to matter. Are they that bad to be top 5? They still have Joe Johnson and Lopez. I really don't think they have any shot at the playoffs, they're going to start Jarrett Jack at the point and Markel Brown at the 3. Even in the east, I'm pretty convinced that building around Brook Lopez and Thad Young won't get you to the playoffs, especially when you consider Indy brings back Paul George, added Monta Ellis, and looks pretty solid generally and Miami brings Bosh back and added Justise Winslow and some depth. I think the Knicks will be better than Brooklyn this year too, they're not going to be sitting Melo out of 2/3 of their games again and they've added some pieces too. Wouldn't rule out Detroit or Charlotte finishing with a better record either. On the Mavs, I think they've cemented their spot in the bottom half of the lottery; it's like they want to give us their pick. Zaza Pachulia, Deron Williams, and Javale Mcgee aren't gonna take them to the playoffs in the west, especially factoring in the return of KD, and improvement from Phoenix and Utah at the very least, and probably Sacramento too, in spite of everything. I think we have a very good chance at 2 top-10 or 12 picks next year |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 15, 2015 13:00:32 GMT -5
I feel the East will be a lot better this year. The worst teams from a year ago will be a lot better this year. Look at the Knicks, 76ers and Hornets they all got better. The 76ers might be the most improved team in the whole NBA. They got a stud young center and 3 real NBA players from the Kings. Noels and Okafor should be a great Combo. I also think a player like Stauskas could go wild next year with the ball in his hands. You can argue that the Pistons have players that fit coaches system better, so they could improve. You would think that the Magic good young player will take a step forward one of these years. There is a real chance that the Nets could be the worst team in the East with one major injury. Only way Nets make playoffs is if they have no major injuries and some of there young wild card players they signed like Larkin or Robinson become quality NBA players. It could happen but chances are we will get a top 10 pick from them next year, might even be top 5.
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jul 16, 2015 9:06:04 GMT -5
The past draft ended up being worst case scenario for the picks, since the Celtics snuck into the playoffs and the Clips overachieved in the regular season. A potential 10 and 22 ended up being 16 and 29, which we found wasn't enough to get a top-of-the-draft impact. We are on a similar precipice this year. Worst case scenario upcoming season is probably Dallas wins the lottery and Celts/Nets are both in the 16-19 area, which will give us two MORE developmental prospects. This teambuilding this is tough.
Somehow, someway, I believe the right opportunity to cash in the chips, or a good ping pong bounce, will happen. Just hoping soon, hate being in the middle even with a fun young team.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 16, 2015 9:23:57 GMT -5
I think the Cousins-Karl situation could become completely untenable pretty quickly and we definitely have just about the best package that could be offered unless Philly decides to make a play, which I see as unlikely, but outside of him, I don't know what star-caliber player is going to become available anytime soon. I think the best shot we'll have at a star will be the upcoming lottery- Dallas should be in it with one of the lower slots, and I think the Brooklyn pick could give us a top 5 pick this year. They're one borderline inevitable Brook Lopez injury away from having maybe the weakest roster in the East
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Post by texs31 on Jul 16, 2015 10:33:57 GMT -5
Because I'm desperate to find a star that we could possibly acquire, I'm going to keep an eye on the Paul George/Larry Bird situation. The Pacers, apparantly, want to run an offense that puts him at the Power Forward spot a lot. There was a bit of spat as George indicated he didn't want to do that much and Bird said it wasn't his call. Probably not much to see here but, if Indiana takes another step back and decides to rebuild . . . maybe?  |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2015 12:19:44 GMT -5
The past draft ended up being worst case scenario for the picks, since the Celtics snuck into the playoffs and the Clips overachieved in the regular season. A potential 10 and 22 ended up being 16 and 29, which we found wasn't enough to get a top-of-the-draft impact. We are on a similar precipice this year. Worst case scenario upcoming season is probably Dallas wins the lottery and Celts/Nets are both in the 16-19 area, which will give us two MORE developmental prospects. This teambuilding this is tough. Somehow, someway, I believe the right opportunity to cash in the chips, or a good ping pong bounce, will happen. Just hoping soon, hate being in the middle even with a fun young team. I put a lot of blame on Danny for the way the rebuild is going. Danny had to go out and sign Boy Wonder as our coach. I love Stevens, but if you want to tank and get high picks, he is the wrong coach. Danny also had a chance to trade players like Bass two trade deadlines ago and didn't. Then last year he tries to tank getting rid of Green and Rondo. Then he reverse course and gets Thomas and other Vets to push us into playoffs. Danny could have easily made it so the Celtics got a top 10 pick. Instead he gave his coach what he wanted and went for the playoffs. Now at the time I was all for it, thinking young team on the rise, boy wonder coach and a crap load of cap space would help us get a very good free agent and maybe just maybe a franchise player like Kevin Love. What does Danny do? He gets Amir Johnson, a player he could have signed if we had the 5th worst record in the league last year. Make no mistake last year wasn't bad luck, it was Danny being trader Danny.
As far as the draft goes I couldn't be happier. I wouldn't trade our three rookies for Justice Winslow, as I think he might have been one of the most overrated players in the draft. Seems a lot of GM's thought the same as they let him slip to 10, when pre draft his range was 4-7.
Right now I say we have a 75% chance of getting two lottery picks from the New Jersey and Dallas. Unless everything goes right and they make some moves I just don't see these teams making the playoffs. Heck with the east getting stronger, we could get 3 straight lotto picks from the Nets.
Have to say that I think trading for a Star is a pipe dream in the NBA at this time. With all teams flush with money and having a way to improve without blowing up roster, I just don't see teams trading away franchise players.
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Post by texs31 on Jul 16, 2015 12:58:20 GMT -5
I guarantee we won't get a lottery pick from New Jersey.  |
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 16, 2015 13:23:46 GMT -5
I put a lot of blame on Danny for the way the rebuild is going. Danny had to go out and sign Boy Wonder as our coach. I love Stevens, but if you want to tank and get high picks, he is the wrong coach. Danny also had a chance to trade players like Bass two trade deadlines ago and didn't. Then last year he tries to tank getting rid of Green and Rondo. Then he reverse course and gets Thomas and other Vets to push us into playoffs. Danny could have easily made it so the Celtics got a top 10 pick. Instead he gave his coach what he wanted and went for the playoffs. Now at the time I was all for it, thinking young team on the rise, boy wonder coach and a crap load of cap space would help us get a very good free agent and maybe just maybe a franchise player like Kevin Love. What does Danny do? He gets Amir Johnson, a player he could have signed if we had the 5th worst record in the league last year. Make no mistake last year wasn't bad luck, it was Danny being trader Danny. I think you're being way too harsh on Ainge. I'd much rather be us than Philly, because at least we have a direction, are making progress, and have some pieces in place that look like legitimate building blocks for a contender, like Stevens, for one, who is also a major selling point for any free agent, in my opinion. Players are much more likely to want to come and play here with a GM who's dedicated to competing and an excellent coach than Philly, and the guys we draft are also much more likely to stay when they've actually had good experiences here and won some games. I don't think you can plan the timetable the way you're suggesting: if we hadn't gotten Stevens when we did, somebody else would have, and we'd be stuck with a mediocre coach. Who knows when we would've had the opportunity to get someone as good again? It's also worth mentioning that I've seen it said numerous times that most people around the league think that Danny has nailed every part of the rebuilding process, at least twice it's shown up in Zach Lowe's pieces. They just chose not to go the tanking route, and I think in the long run, that will pay off, in terms of player development and loyalty if nothing more than that |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 16, 2015 13:37:12 GMT -5
The past draft ended up being worst case scenario for the picks, since the Celtics snuck into the playoffs and the Clips overachieved in the regular season. A potential 10 and 22 ended up being 16 and 29, which we found wasn't enough to get a top-of-the-draft impact. We are on a similar precipice this year. Worst case scenario upcoming season is probably Dallas wins the lottery and Celts/Nets are both in the 16-19 area, which will give us two MORE developmental prospects. This teambuilding this is tough. Somehow, someway, I believe the right opportunity to cash in the chips, or a good ping pong bounce, will happen. Just hoping soon, hate being in the middle even with a fun young team. I put a lot of blame on Danny for the way the rebuild is going. Danny had to go out and sign Boy Wonder as our coach. I love Stevens, but if you want to tank and get high picks, he is the wrong coach. Danny also had a chance to trade players like Bass two trade deadlines ago and didn't. Then last year he tries to tank getting rid of Green and Rondo. Then he reverse course and gets Thomas and other Vets to push us into playoffs. Danny could have easily made it so the Celtics got a top 10 pick. Instead he gave his coach what he wanted and went for the playoffs. Now at the time I was all for it, thinking young team on the rise, boy wonder coach and a crap load of cap space would help us get a very good free agent and maybe just maybe a franchise player like Kevin Love. What does Danny do? He gets Amir Johnson, a player he could have signed if we had the 5th worst record in the league last year. Make no mistake last year wasn't bad luck, it was Danny being trader Danny.
As far as the draft goes I couldn't be happier. I wouldn't trade our three rookies for Justice Winslow, as I think he might have been one of the most overrated players in the draft. Seems a lot of GM's thought the same as they let him slip to 10, when pre draft his range was 4-7.
Right now I say we have a 75% chance of getting two lottery picks from the New Jersey and Dallas. Unless everything goes right and they make some moves I just don't see these teams making the playoffs. Heck with the east getting stronger, we could get 3 straight lotto picks from the Nets.
Have to say that I think trading for a Star is a pipe dream in the NBA at this time. With all teams flush with money and having a way to improve without blowing up roster, I just don't see teams trading away franchise players.
Didn't Minnesota just trade Love? |
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Post by jmei on Jul 16, 2015 13:40:40 GMT -5
I would rather have had Thomas and Rozier than the ninth pick in the draft. I would rather have Stevens than anyone but Towns in this year's draft.
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Post by jmei on Jul 16, 2015 13:46:22 GMT -5
By the way, another potential disgruntled star: Carmelo Anthony. If they go into a full rebuild, he probably asks out, and he's still a very good player.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 16, 2015 13:50:35 GMT -5
I wouldn't touch Melo unless the Celts already had a KG-like presence on the roster. Guy's an absolute clown.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 16, 2015 14:13:40 GMT -5
I wouldn't touch Melo unless the Celts already had a KG-like presence on the roster. Guy's an absolute clown. He was still the best player on some very good Nuggets teams before he got stuck on the Knicks. He's not a clown, he just needs someone to cover for him on defense. If we had a legit rim protector, melo would fit very nicely with the guys we have currently have: good perimeter D and guys who can spot up around him, but nobody else who demands a ton of touches individually. If he becomes available for a reasonable price between now and next offseason I'd jump at it |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 16, 2015 15:03:32 GMT -5
I think Danny has done a great job. The NBA culture is a dangerous one and it's hard to develop players, winning players, in a losing dysfunctional culture. The Nets pics have always been the keys along with our Marcus Smart pick.
Philly is going to have a hard time digging out with the situation they've built. They need a coach
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jul 16, 2015 15:27:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't touch Melo unless the Celts already had a KG-like presence on the roster. Guy's an absolute clown. He was still the best player on some very good Nuggets teams before he got stuck on the Knicks. He's not a clown, he just needs someone to cover for him on defense. If we had a legit rim protector, melo would fit very nicely with the guys we have currently have: good perimeter D and guys who can spot up around him, but nobody else who demands a ton of touches individually. If he becomes available for a reasonable price between now and next offseason I'd jump at it Eh, he's a pretty big clown. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2015 22:18:53 GMT -5
I guarantee we won't get a lottery pick from New Jersey. Keep Dreaming |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2015 22:39:03 GMT -5
I put a lot of blame on Danny for the way the rebuild is going. Danny had to go out and sign Boy Wonder as our coach. I love Stevens, but if you want to tank and get high picks, he is the wrong coach. Danny also had a chance to trade players like Bass two trade deadlines ago and didn't. Then last year he tries to tank getting rid of Green and Rondo. Then he reverse course and gets Thomas and other Vets to push us into playoffs. Danny could have easily made it so the Celtics got a top 10 pick. Instead he gave his coach what he wanted and went for the playoffs. Now at the time I was all for it, thinking young team on the rise, boy wonder coach and a crap load of cap space would help us get a very good free agent and maybe just maybe a franchise player like Kevin Love. What does Danny do? He gets Amir Johnson, a player he could have signed if we had the 5th worst record in the league last year. Make no mistake last year wasn't bad luck, it was Danny being trader Danny. I think you're being way too harsh on Ainge. I'd much rather be us than Philly, because at least we have a direction, are making progress, and have some pieces in place that look like legitimate building blocks for a contender, like Stevens, for one, who is also a major selling point for any free agent, in my opinion. Players are much more likely to want to come and play here with a GM who's dedicated to competing and an excellent coach than Philly, and the guys we draft are also much more likely to stay when they've actually had good experiences here and won some games. I don't think you can plan the timetable the way you're suggesting: if we hadn't gotten Stevens when we did, somebody else would have, and we'd be stuck with a mediocre coach. Who knows when we would've had the opportunity to get someone as good again? It's also worth mentioning that I've seen it said numerous times that most people around the league think that Danny has nailed every part of the rebuilding process, at least twice it's shown up in Zach Lowe's pieces. They just chose not to go the tanking route, and I think in the long run, that will pay off, in terms of player development and loyalty if nothing more than that Umm I was joking about Stevens because he's so good he's making it hard to get high draft picks.
Up until this trade deadline everyone agreed Danny nailed almost everything. A ton of people have questioned his moves to improve at the deadline and thus lower our pick outside lottery. Max free agent cap space in what 20 years? And Danny puts the full court press on Amir Johnson, making him the first person he calls when free agency opens is something you have to question.
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Post by jmei on Jul 16, 2015 22:41:48 GMT -5
Who would you have signed instead?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2015 22:47:39 GMT -5
Didn't Minnesota just trade Love? No, they did that almost a year ago. So much of the economics of the NBA have changed since then. Also there is not a single franchise level talent currently available by trade or that has already been traded. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2015 22:57:40 GMT -5
Who would you have signed instead? Not so much as who I would have signed its who he didn't go after at all. But I would have signed Greg Monroe and Tobias Harris. If you couldn't sign either or both ( you could have cleared the space needed to sign both), my fall back would have been Kosta Koufos, a guy that would have been a true defensive anchor at the center position. If you let the market play out, you could have got Amir Johnson on something like a 3 year 18 to 24 million deal. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2015 23:00:25 GMT -5
By the way, another potential disgruntled star: Carmelo Anthony. If they go into a full rebuild, he probably asks out, and he's still a very good player. Won't happen, its a pipe dream. They will be able to add free agents for the next two years as the caps explodes, no need for a complete rebuild when you can simple add talent by way of free agents. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 16, 2015 23:13:38 GMT -5
I would rather have had Thomas and Rozier than the ninth pick in the draft. I would rather have Stevens than anyone but Towns in this year's draft. Well looking at Standings I say you had a shot at the 6th pick in draft if Danny doesn't get Thomas, just buys out Prince and trades Bass away for nothing or buys him out. You also have the chance of moving into the top 3 when in lottery. I would trade Thomas and Rozier for Stanley Johnson, I might even do it for Myles Turner. I really like Thomas and Rozier but neither is or will likely become a franchise player. I see both Johnson and Turner as having that type of upside. You like going for the safe double, I would go for the homerun even if it meant striking out.
I was joking about our coach I really like him, but I would have traded him for a top 3 pick in this draft any day of the week. One thing Danny is really good at is getting good coaches, getting a young franchise player is much harder.
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Post by jmei on Jul 17, 2015 6:42:05 GMT -5
Who would you have signed instead? Not so much as who I would have signed its who he didn't go after at all. But I would have signed Greg Monroe and Tobias Harris. If you couldn't sign either or both ( you could have cleared the space needed to sign both), my fall back would have been Kosta Koufos, a guy that would have been a true defensive anchor at the center position. If you let the market play out, you could have got Amir Johnson on something like a 3 year 18 to 24 million deal. Neither Monroe or Harris were realistic targets (they both signed max salaries elsewhere). If they didn't target Johnson early with an aggressive offer, one of the teams who missed out on the first batch of FAs would have absolutely given him a lot more than 3/$24m. They overpaid in AAV for fewer years, which makes sense since they have cap space now that they weren't going to spend on anyone else and want to maintain cap flexibility going forward. Considering his age, I could have done Koufos instead. But he's a higher-risk higher-reward, and if you give him 4/$40m or so and he turns out to not be good enough offensively to be a first-division starter, that contract starts looking like dead weight even with the cap increase. He is a true center, which the Celtics lack, but in Stevens' motion offense, a more versatile big like Johnson (who can dribble and shoot) might be a better fit. |
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Post by jmei on Jul 17, 2015 6:47:11 GMT -5
By the way, another potential disgruntled star: Carmelo Anthony. If they go into a full rebuild, he probably asks out, and he's still a very good player. Won't happen, its a pipe dream. They will be able to add free agents for the next two years as the caps explodes, no need for a complete rebuild when you can simple add talent by way of free agents. Who are the 2016 free agents who are going to sign in New York? Durant is really the only stud, and after him and maybe Horford, the rest of the free agent class is pretty meh (Joe Johnson, Roy Hibbert, Joakim Noah, Conley, Nene, Al Jefferson, etc). If the Knicks struggle next year and can't add difference-making FAs, Melo is going on the trading block. I'm more worried about the fact that, with so many teams having cap space, he'd want to be traded to somewhere other than Boston. |
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