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6/17-6/18 Red Sox @ Braves Series Thread
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Post by Guidas on Jun 18, 2015 21:01:54 GMT -5
Vanhover may be the worst balls and strike umpire I've seen this year.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 18, 2015 21:03:10 GMT -5
Aardsma's still alive?
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 18, 2015 21:03:13 GMT -5
Brockstar is a solid baseball player. The kind of guy you want on your team.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 18, 2015 21:04:05 GMT -5
Brock is going to single-handedly screw up this whole draft pick thing.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jun 18, 2015 21:06:55 GMT -5
Brock is going to single-handedly screw up this whole draft pick thing. Watching him play, I keep thinking, boy we are going to get a ton when we trade him.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 18, 2015 21:09:44 GMT -5
Vanhover may be the worst balls and strike umpire I've seen this year. Ya think so huh?
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,312
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Post by radiohix on Jun 18, 2015 21:11:38 GMT -5
I gringe everytime they show one of the kids (X, Mookie...) talking to Hanley in the dugout! I don't want him to have any "influence" on their approach, work ethic, hair style etc etc
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 18, 2015 21:14:07 GMT -5
No doubt Ben was convinced to give him the contract based on his Kung Fu Panda nickname. If only he had looked at some stats. You guys are getting a little bit ridiculous. Agree or not with the signing, but putting it on his nickname gives you no credibility. I take it you didn't read Francona's book. And, the need for sexier players.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 18, 2015 21:16:11 GMT -5
I gringe everytime they show one of the kids (X, Mookie...) talking to Hanley in the dugout! I don't want him to have any "influence" on their approach, work ethic, hair style etc etc I recall feeling the same way in 2005 when young Hanley got called up and seemed to be forming a bond with the LF. What goes around comes around, to use a bad cliche.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 18, 2015 21:17:44 GMT -5
Is it just me or has Buchholz cut down on his throws over to 1st base?
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Post by jmei on Jun 18, 2015 21:18:07 GMT -5
Why did it take this long to find out Shaw can play third? Wouldn't his minor league career look different if he came up as a third baseman? Would not be crazy to think that he and/or the organization realized in the last few years that he wasn't going to hit enough to be a starting first baseman and tried to focus on his 3B defense instead. I believe he started playing more at the hot corner towards the end of last year and the start of this one. ( link)
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 18, 2015 21:20:58 GMT -5
Typical Pedroia pla... oh.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 18, 2015 21:28:44 GMT -5
Do we put Holt at 1b? Seems crazy to keep Castillo up and not play him. We're done. Napoli is gone at the end of the year. Play Nap against lefties.
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Post by jmei on Jun 18, 2015 21:31:22 GMT -5
He was actually signed to balance out a very RHH-centric lineup, which was the main worry all offseason. Look, I get it, you don't like him because he's fat. If you want to just fall back on lazy stereotypes, that's your prerogative. But that's really the only argument you've got, because a three-win player signed through his age 28-32 seasons gets about what Sandoval got when your organization has failed at a position and you feel (incorrectly) that the only way to fill the position is through free agency, the most inefficient method of talent procurement.
I finished the last sentence for you. I'm not trying to pick on jmei here, but I just hate this kind of thinking. A resourceful organization should not be in a position where it feels it has to pay $95 million for a declining fat guy. There are plenty of ways to get 2-3 win players. The 2013 World Champion Boston Red Sox had 12 players with bRef of 2.8 or more and nobody making $19.5 million. Danny Nava was making $505,000. The Cardinals, everybody's model organization, have one player making as much as Panda and that's Wainwright, a legitimate No. 1 starter. The Giants' have Matt Cain and he was a legitimate No. 1 guy when he signed his contract. Their highest-paid position player is Hunter Pence at $18.5 million. He was coming off his age 30 season in which he put up an OPS-plus of 133 when he signed his deal. It's a fair point. One of the disadvantages of having a big payroll is feeling like you have to spend all of it, and a lot of free agent spending is rather inefficient. It's interesting to see how the new Dodgers administration used their financial muscle-- for instance, by eating Dan Haren's salary and turning him into an asset or by signing expensive but low-risk lottery tickets in Brett Anderson, Brandon Beachy and (to a lesser extent) Brandon McCarthy or by outbidding other teams for perceived market inefficiencies like Hector Olivera. Of course, the Red Sox have tried to do similar things-- by signing Masterson (expensive lottery ticket) and Moncada (perceived market inefficiency), and of the above moves, only really the Haren move has really played out in the Dodgers' favor so far. So maybe the real answer is just that being a GM is hard.
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 18, 2015 21:38:24 GMT -5
I gringe everytime they show one of the kids (X, Mookie...) talking to Hanley in the dugout! I don't want him to have any "influence" on their approach, work ethic, hair style etc etc Yeah, the team chemistry and performance would both be a lot better off if Hanley just ignored them.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 18, 2015 21:44:58 GMT -5
Atta boy, Travis. Nice, nice play. If he can play a passable 3B, he suddenly becomes a very interesting bench player. To carry a 1B/3B bench bat, you need to either: - Not have a full-time DH (the Sox will be lucky to have only one of those in 2016) or - Have a 6-man bullpen (John Farrell's head would explode) or - Have a player like Ben Zobrist or Brock Holt. If we pencil in Holt and JBJ as 2/3 of our 2016 bench, though, wouldn't it be better to have a RHH as the 3rd bench bat? Yes, most of the starters are RHH, but Sandoval isn't and who knows who the 1st baseman will be (Ortiz? LOL.) Anyway, getting ahead of myself a bit... after all Shaw still hasn't had his first major league hit.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,312
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Post by radiohix on Jun 18, 2015 21:46:21 GMT -5
I gringe everytime they show one of the kids (X, Mookie...) talking to Hanley in the dugout! I don't want him to have any "influence" on their approach, work ethic, hair style etc etc Yeah, the team chemistry and performance would both be a lot better off if Hanley just ignored them. Don't try to put words into my mouth! I wasn't refering to any team chemistry crap! Kids look to veteran for advices and Hanley isn't really a role model; That is all I'm sayin'!
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Post by dcsoxfan on Jun 18, 2015 21:48:56 GMT -5
Since others have brought it up, let me add my objections to the Sandoval signing (I expressed them at the time, although not in a single post):
1. Pablo Sandoval is not a star; he was never likely to post more than 3 to 3.5 WAR in a season. Any half-way decent GM should be able to find a player capable of 1.5 to 2.0 WAR cheap. There just isn't enough upside here to justify the risk. (By contrast Hanley Ramirez is a star; there is a possibility of him popping out a couple of 5+ WAR seasons while with the Red Sox --this is a justiable risk) 2. The Red Sox already had such a player on the roster -- Brock Holt. 3. Without knowing the Red Sox actual financials, taking on Sandoval seemed to move them past the point of having enough financial flexibility to acquire a last piece to meet a need (especially since need always seemed most likely to be a top if the rotation starter) 4. The Red Sox had a potential 3B, Cecchini, at AAA. He has since cratered, so this argument is now moot.
Anyway, I don't think the Sandoval signing ever made much sense.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 18, 2015 21:50:51 GMT -5
Farrell sure does not believe in "managing the defense" in-game 5-2 game, do they really want Shaw at 3B?
I won't give my suggested move. Until later.
EDIT: this is wrong. I forgot about Pedroia injury, which shorts them an infielder.
And, of course, Sandoval suspended. Wonder if he would play if it were urgent ... if it went xtra innings and they needed a pinch-hitter, is he even eligible? The suspension is informal or is he actually not on the roster submitted for the game?
Is it obvious that Shaw is the best 3B? better than Holt? How good IS Shaw? Not convinced. He is flawed at 3B.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 18, 2015 21:55:15 GMT -5
Farrell sure does not believe in "managing the defense" in-game 5-2 game, do they really want Shaw at 3B? Huh? It's not clear to me that Travis Shaw is not the best defensive 3B on the roster right now. Farrell managed to get Hanley out of the game for the 9th, that's the only thing that really makes a difference.
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Post by jmei on Jun 18, 2015 22:01:29 GMT -5
1. Pablo Sandoval is not a star; he was never likely to post more than 3 to 3.5 WAR in a season. Any half-way decent GM should be able to find a player capable of 1.5 to 2.0 WAR cheap. There just isn't enough upside here to justify the risk. (By contrast Hanley Ramirez is a star; there is a possibility of him popping out a couple of 5+ WAR seasons while with the Red Sox --this is a justiable risk) Eh, Sandoval has two 5+ fWAR seasons in his career, so he's not exactly a zero upside guy.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,312
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Post by radiohix on Jun 18, 2015 22:09:46 GMT -5
Mookie's OPSing .820 for the month of June (50 ABs)
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 18, 2015 22:10:15 GMT -5
Is it obvious that Shaw is the best 3B? better than Holt? How good IS Shaw? Not convinced. He is flawed at 3B. I didn't say that, I said it's not clear to me. He made a pretty darn good play earlier in the game. I guess you have been watching a lot of Pawtucket games and therefore know all about his flaws? Holt has good range for a 3B and is good at charging bunts, but his arm strength is somewhat subpar.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jun 18, 2015 22:20:17 GMT -5
Brock Holt is not a strong defensive 3B or SS, and not as good at 3B as Sandoval. So he really isn't an alternative. Also, until the last couple of games, he didn't hit like a 3B should. It would be a remarkable thing if he keeps up his current slugging. However, he has become a very valuable player.
With all the hate towards Sandoval, no one has come up with an alternative. The fact is the choices for 3B this past year were very limited, and they remain so. There aren't that many good 3Bs, and none of the good ones is available.
I didn't think Sandoval would sign with Boston, and I still don't know why he did. He had a very good thing in SF, a following he probably never will gain in Boston. Sometimes people don't appreciate what they have. In any case, he's going to be the Sox 3B until Devers or Moncada or Chavis arrive.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 18, 2015 22:24:02 GMT -5
Well, if this were computer baseball, here is my alternate substitution sequence for tonite. It will be mocked.
Castillo pinch-run for Ortiz. (Not Napoli, gives you a better Pinch runner) which puts Castillo in CF, moves Betts to 2B, Holt to 3B, Shaw to 1B.
for 1/2 an inning. (Gets Shaw off 3B, preserves the bench)
Then, when Layne enters, you double-switch, Napoli for Hanley. Layne in Hanley's spot. (This gets Hanley out an inning earlier and gets Betts back to CF.)
I like it, but it's admittedly stupid. But Napoli as PR is stupid and not getting Hanley out before the 9th is stupid.
Plan B: Leave Ortiz in, just send Castillo in for Hanley in the bottom the 7th. Then double switch Napoli for Ortiz when Layne enters. (The flaw here is that if Layne's spot came up, they'd hafta use Pedroia or Pablo or Swihart to PH and using Swihart is the only one and that is problematic.)
Plan C: They don't have a pitcher who can pinch-run for Ortiz?
conclusion: with the short bench, it was almost required that they save either Napoli or Castillo for the top of the 9th if a PH were necessary. So either Hanley or Ortiz had to play defense in the 7th & 8th. Why do I think Hanley is a bigger handicap than Ortiz?
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