SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
6/17-6/18 Red Sox @ Braves Series Thread
|
Post by mgoetze on Jun 18, 2015 22:24:14 GMT -5
Brock Holt [...] until the last couple of games, he didn't hit like a 3B should. It would be a remarkable thing if he keeps up his current slugging. Exercise: name 15 current starting 3rd basemen who "hit like a 3B should".
|
|
|
Post by cologneredsox on Jun 19, 2015 5:00:58 GMT -5
I gringe everytime they show one of the kids (X, Mookie...) talking to Hanley in the dugout! I don't want him to have any "influence" on their approach, work ethic, hair style etc etc I recall feeling the same way in 2005 when young Hanley got called up and seemed to be forming a bond with the LF. What goes around comes around, to use a bad cliche. And that's what it is: a bad cliche, nothing more...
|
|
|
Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 19, 2015 6:45:46 GMT -5
Would not be crazy to think that he and/or the organization realized in the last few years that he wasn't going to hit enough to be a starting first baseman and tried to focus on his 3B defense instead. I believe he started playing more at the hot corner towards the end of last year and the start of this one. ( link) Still seems backwards to me ... if he could hit enough to be a 1Bman but could play a good third base, he'd be a very valuable major league starter for years. The ability to play third makes him much more valuable independent of his hitting. My original point was basically around that ... if he was hitting the way he was hitting in lower minors, but he was seen as a legit (or even above-average) third baseman, we all would've looked at him very differently.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Jun 19, 2015 10:33:19 GMT -5
Mookie's OPSing .820 for the month of June (50 ABs) Sandoval is OPSing 889 in June (48 ABs).
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 19, 2015 11:48:42 GMT -5
Still seems backwards to me ... if he could hit enough to be a 1Bman but could play a good third base, he'd be a very valuable major league starter for years. The ability to play third makes him much more valuable independent of his hitting. My original point was basically around that ... if he was hitting the way he was hitting in lower minors, but he was seen as a legit (or even above-average) third baseman, we all would've looked at him very differently. Seems backwards in what way? That they waited to play him more at 3B? He did play 34 games at 3B in Lowell compared to 10 at 1B after being drafted in 2011 (although 25 of those games at 3B came after Cecchini's season ended early due to injury, with Boss Moanaroa also on the roster to play 1B). He kept up with 3B a little bit the whole way up and only really got away from it the most when he got to Portland. Those teams had Kolbrin Vitek and/or Michael Almanzar on them playing third base as well in 2012/2013, and then last year Coyle was playing 3B with Mookie at 2B while Shaw was there, so that all cut into the time he could have gotten at third otherwise, at least in theory. Just a side effect of being in infields with other guys who needed PT. We also don't really know how often he took grounders there during BP and such. And it's no surprise to me they gave him the most time at 3B while he was on a team that has Bruce Crabbe there basically to be the fielding coach. It really does seem like, except for catcher, the Red Sox development philosophy is that they can wait until Double-A or Triple-A to teach guys new positions, and before that they worry more about guys getting into routines and worrying about what they can do at the plate. Shaw just seems like a rare case where they're doing that going up the defensive spectrum rather than down it (and I think we're a little too beholden to the defensive spectrum sometimes when we think in terms of how hard it is for a given player to learn a position, rather than how important the position is, which I believe is supposed to be the point of the spectrum. Anyway, just a tangent.) There's some intuition to that.
|
|
danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
|
Post by danr on Jun 19, 2015 11:58:52 GMT -5
Brock Holt [...] until the last couple of games, he didn't hit like a 3B should. It would be a remarkable thing if he keeps up his current slugging. Exercise: name 15 current starting 3rd basemen who "hit like a 3B should". Sorry but I don't play games like that. If you would care to comment on the substance of my post then I will respond.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Jun 19, 2015 14:42:25 GMT -5
Lauber spending his pent-up frustration lashing out at Sandoval: www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2015/06/lauber_pablo_sandoval_surprises_with_tone_deafnessReally, you're not allowed to keep the baseball for your 200th double just because the team has a losing record? I mean, I find the whole practice of saving baseballs for anything silly, but we didn't see him complain about E-Rod getting the ball for his first major league strikeout, so it seems he approves of the practice in general. Just grasping at straws to badmouth players... sheesh.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Jun 19, 2015 14:45:40 GMT -5
Exercise: name 15 current starting 3rd basemen who "hit like a 3B should". Sorry but I don't play games like that. If you would care to comment on the substance of my post then I will respond. The comment is the same as I have made many times on this board: it doesn't matter one iota how you get your offensive contributions as long as the total is sufficient. If you look around the league for decently hitting AND SLUGGING third basemen you will be sorely disappointed. But it doesn't matter... walks are great too, no matter which position you play. And if your shortstop hits homeruns? Guess what, they count just as much as if your right fielder does.
|
|
|
Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 19, 2015 15:50:50 GMT -5
Still seems backwards to me ... if he could hit enough to be a 1Bman but could play a good third base, he'd be a very valuable major league starter for years. The ability to play third makes him much more valuable independent of his hitting. My original point was basically around that ... if he was hitting the way he was hitting in lower minors, but he was seen as a legit (or even above-average) third baseman, we all would've looked at him very differently. Seems backwards in what way? That they waited to play him more at 3B? He did play 34 games at 3B in Lowell compared to 10 at 1B after being drafted in 2011 (although 25 of those games at 3B came after Cecchini's season ended early due to injury, with Boss Moanaroa also on the roster to play 1B). He kept up with 3B a little bit the whole way up and only really got away from it the most when he got to Portland. Those teams had Kolbrin Vitek and/or Michael Almanzar on them playing third base as well in 2012/2013, and then last year Coyle was playing 3B with Mookie at 2B while Shaw was there, so that all cut into the time he could have gotten at third otherwise, at least in theory. Just a side effect of being in infields with other guys who needed PT. We also don't really know how often he took grounders there during BP and such. And it's no surprise to me they gave him the most time at 3B while he was on a team that has Bruce Crabbe there basically to be the fielding coach. It really does seem like, except for catcher, the Red Sox development philosophy is that they can wait until Double-A or Triple-A to teach guys new positions, and before that they worry more about guys getting into routines and worrying about what they can do at the plate. Shaw just seems like a rare case where they're doing that going up the defensive spectrum rather than down it (and I think we're a little too beholden to the defensive spectrum sometimes when we think in terms of how hard it is for a given player to learn a position, rather than how important the position is, which I believe is supposed to be the point of the spectrum. Anyway, just a tangent.) There's some intuition to that. Yeah, that it took them that long to give him a real chance at third ... I guess it's sort of ingrained in my thinking that you always give a guy a chance to prove himself on the harder end of the spectrum because it's inherently more valuable to the team to have a player there than lower in the spectrum. If he was OPSing .957 in Salem as a third baseman instead of first baseman, it's clear he would've had more value. I mean, in brief looks, he looks like he could actually hold down the position defensively, not just as an emergency/occasional thing. But, I dunno, maybe they always knew he could play third, and it was just the rest of us that were in the dark, so they just decided to keep him at first to have him learn that fully. That seems unlikely, but possible.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jun 19, 2015 16:15:43 GMT -5
Shaw definitely looked comfortable at 3rd last night, though that was the limit of my scouting of his defense. If the consensus is that he can stay at 3rd, he probably should rise quite a bit on the prospect rankings. Maybe ahead of Cecchini.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 19, 2015 16:56:24 GMT -5
Shaw definitely looked comfortable at 3rd last night, though that was the limit of my scouting of his defense. If the consensus is that he can stay at 3rd, he probably should rise quite a bit on the prospect rankings. Maybe ahead of Cecchini. Given Chaz's assessment of his defense at third (posted last night - go check it out) and the pretty clear message being sent by the Sox that Shaw is ahead of Cecchini on the team depth chart (plus, y'know, the stats, which say Shaw is hitting and Cecchini isn't), I'll say that there's a near-certain chance Shaw will be ahead of Cecchini at least in my own personal rankings that I submit for our next rankings update. If I did them today he would be.
|
|
|