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Post by honestlyabe on Aug 15, 2016 15:12:47 GMT -5
wew lad
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 15, 2016 15:12:48 GMT -5
You just can't argue with stupid decisions that work out. Keep doing dumb things JF, until we're in last place again.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 15, 2016 15:13:08 GMT -5
I'll take the players opinions over yours if you don't mind. And yet he won the biggest prize in baseball. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that roughly 3 out 5 managers you'd name as better ones can't say the same thing about themselves. This cannot be studied, but pretty much any manager could have won the WS for the Red Sox in 2013. Pretty sure Trotfan could've managed that 2013 team to a title.
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Post by Gwell55 on Aug 15, 2016 15:13:17 GMT -5
Kimbrel needs to use that low hook when it is 1-2 or with 2 strikes anyway instead of 0-1 ... then can't get the out like he has been doing way to much.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 15, 2016 15:13:36 GMT -5
Sometimes they manage to win despite some head scratching late game decisions by the manager.
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Post by bosox81 on Aug 15, 2016 15:13:48 GMT -5
You just can't argue with stupid decisions that work out. Keep doing dumb things JF, until we're in last place again. To be fair to Farrell, it's very hard to manage a closer like Kimbrel who needs perfect conditions to pitch well.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Aug 15, 2016 15:17:00 GMT -5
get rid of the entire concept of closer. I'm listening... Well, I said that because you need to take into account the role of the "closer." It doesn't make any sense unless you consider the affect on the bullpen of warming guys up to match them up at the end of the game. If you had warmed up Ziegler, that does not come without cost. You have to factor that in. If you accept the value in that, then all the other BS-sounding things about a closer (have to be able to accept the responsibility, need to be good enough to nail down games to avoid the deflating losses, etc) make more sense. I'm honestly agnostic about whether the benefit of having a closer outweighs the cost because I haven't really looked into it, but Kimbrel saved Ziegler from having to get up today and waste warmup pitches. That's what closers do, and most arguments about getting rid of the role usually don't take that into account.
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Post by borisman on Aug 15, 2016 15:17:55 GMT -5
28 pitches for Kimbrel and another almost cardiac arrest. C'mon dude, take it easy on us a few times.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 15, 2016 15:18:00 GMT -5
I know I annoy some of you by defending Farrell constantly, but I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I just like the dude. He absolutely is getting fired this year unless the Red Sox win a WS title, so I'm pretty aware I already lost any discussion regarding him.
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Post by philarhody on Aug 15, 2016 15:18:28 GMT -5
Fire Farrell! Are you freaking kidding me?! Can't you see Kimbrel su... oh wait. They won? Phew
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Post by p23w on Aug 15, 2016 15:18:59 GMT -5
Kimbrel is a heart attack. His command comes and goes, his velocity is down and he gets behind in counts far too often. I hope he gets it together for the playoffs. Anyway, nice start by Pomeranz. Hoping for more of the same.
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Post by bosox81 on Aug 15, 2016 15:19:26 GMT -5
Well, I said that because you need to take into account the role of the "closer." It doesn't make any sense unless you consider the affect on the bullpen of warming guys up to match them up at the end of the game. If you had warmed up Ziegler, that does not come without cost. You have to factor that in. If you accept the value in that, then all the other BS-sounding things about a closer (have to be able to accept the responsibility, need to be good enough to nail down games to avoid the deflating losses, etc) make more sense. I'm honestly agnostic about whether the benefit of having a closer outweighs the cost because I haven't really looked into it, but Kimbrel saved Ziegler from having to get up today and waste warmup pitches. That's what closers do, and most arguments about getting rid of the role usually don't take that into account. You must have been away for the Barnes first career save.
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Post by brendan98 on Aug 15, 2016 15:20:52 GMT -5
If you can't get an insurance run with runners on 2nd and 3rd and no outs, than you don't deserve to win. Leon should have hit for Holaday You think?
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Post by sox fan in nc on Aug 15, 2016 15:22:08 GMT -5
I expect a quieter plane ride tonight as compared to last night.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Aug 15, 2016 15:24:26 GMT -5
Well, I said that because you need to take into account the role of the "closer." It doesn't make any sense unless you consider the affect on the bullpen of warming guys up to match them up at the end of the game. If you had warmed up Ziegler, that does not come without cost. You have to factor that in. If you accept the value in that, then all the other BS-sounding things about a closer (have to be able to accept the responsibility, need to be good enough to nail down games to avoid the deflating losses, etc) make more sense. I'm honestly agnostic about whether the benefit of having a closer outweighs the cost because I haven't really looked into it, but Kimbrel saved Ziegler from having to get up today and waste warmup pitches. That's what closers do, and most arguments about getting rid of the role usually don't take that into account. You must have been away for the Barnes first career save. I was! But it wouldn't change my view ... there are games that are exceptions for whatever reason. Generally, if you have a 2-3 run lead, you could have time to warm someone else up if the closer starts to lose it. Kimbrel can't go past 25-30 pitches, anyway. But, like I said, I'm not arguing for the current role of "closers" ... just saying people don't take this into account.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 15, 2016 15:42:08 GMT -5
Well, I said that because you need to take into account the role of the "closer." It doesn't make any sense unless you consider the affect on the bullpen of warming guys up to match them up at the end of the game. If you had warmed up Ziegler, that does not come without cost. You have to factor that in. If you accept the value in that, then all the other BS-sounding things about a closer (have to be able to accept the responsibility, need to be good enough to nail down games to avoid the deflating losses, etc) make more sense. I'm honestly agnostic about whether the benefit of having a closer outweighs the cost because I haven't really looked into it, but Kimbrel saved Ziegler from having to get up today and waste warmup pitches. That's what closers do, and most arguments about getting rid of the role usually don't take that into account. In a one run game where Kimbrel had thrown 28 pitches, why wouldn't you go to Ziegler if he walked that last batter today? He has such shaky control to begin with, it's almost a certain loss. It's no wonder he can't go more than one inning with how many pitches he always throws. 30 pitches is more than enough, especially if you expect him to have anything left in the post season.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 15, 2016 15:48:25 GMT -5
I know I annoy some of you by defending Farrell constantly, but I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I just like the dude. He absolutely is getting fired this year unless the Red Sox win a WS title, so I'm pretty aware I already lost any discussion regarding him. You don't bother me with it even though I'll always argue and try not to be mean about it. I wonder if you saw him blow any playoff games if you'd think differently. But of course you're protected from that the last two years by last place finishes.
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Post by telluricrook on Aug 15, 2016 16:13:54 GMT -5
Kimbrel is a heart attack. His command comes and goes, his velocity is down and he gets behind in counts far too often. I hope he gets it together for the playoffs. Anyway, nice start by Pomeranz. Hoping for more of the same. Playoffs? Dont talk about playoffs. You kidding me?
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 15, 2016 16:29:22 GMT -5
You don't bother me with it even though I'll always argue and try not to be mean about it. I wonder if you saw him blow any playoff games if you'd think differently. But of course you're protected from that the last two years by last place finishes. I don't think Farrell is perfect, not by a long shot, and I do believe that given a chance he could blow playoff games or make a moronic decision that doesn't cost us by sheer luck. When I said that I think managers/coaches should be judged by titles, of course I didn't mean that's the only way to judge them, but that I think that is more of an indication of success than it is for the players, because it's an individual sport and your teammates might suck. For the managers, winning it means you either had a system that worked or your players bought the message. So what I mean is that I don't hold him accountable only for what he does in the post-season, if he makes poor decisions in the regular season you can bet he will in the playoffs. When I defend him by mentioning the WS title, I do it because while some think they won despite of him, I think they wouldn't have won without him. It doesn't mean that I want him to be the manager forever, it's just that I'm more permissive with his shortcomings because of what he's done for the team. And while yeah they finished in last place in the last 2 years, they have also been improving each of the years. Of course the talent in the team is way more responsible for that than the manager, but Farrell had a hand helping the young players. That's also a plus in my book.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 15, 2016 16:43:23 GMT -5
Kimbrel needs to use that low hook when it is 1-2 or with 2 strikes anyway instead of 0-1 ... then can't get the out like he has been doing way to much. To be fair, the early trouble wasn't all his fault. That was a fantastic piece of hitting by Lindor who's a great young player. And I understand being careful with Napoli. The problem for Kimbrel starts when he can't get strikes in the count early. Then the crazy sink on that hook doesn't do much outside of dig him a deeper hole. The team is going to have to be tough about this: once he gets over 25 pitches he really loses much of his effectiveness and the inefficiency goes from brushfire to conflagration. So I'm very glad they have Ziegler to step in if need be, and to step in and be the closer © in some games. They should pull Kimbrel aside and make that clear. Maybe they already have. Good game for Pomeranz against a very patient lineup, one that has some pop. On to Baltimore...
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2016 16:50:10 GMT -5
Nice Victory. The worm is turning...I can feel it. As long as The "Don" Caballero is taking the bullets for Farrell on this website, ain't no on can beat us. Like the "Don", I believe players win games and championships, not managers, not algorithms and/or fuzzy math.
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Post by sibbysisti on Aug 15, 2016 18:07:06 GMT -5
Obviously the "Fire Farrell, or not" thread is not enough to satisfy those who want him gone. If losing doesn't do it, maybe winning will.
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Post by bannedfromsosh on Aug 15, 2016 18:13:57 GMT -5
Pretty much radio silence regarding Pomeranz's great start. I'm here to remind you we likely lose this game with the crap we had before his acquisition. Oh well, I guess you guys can tell me I'm a moron in 8 years when Espinoza is spinning shutouts for the friars.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 15, 2016 19:33:55 GMT -5
Great game by Pomeranz - sorely needed.
It was a good win - the kind of game they haven't been winning.
Up 3-2 in the 9th win two runners on and no outs they could have had a comfortable lead. Instead they blew the chance to cash the runners in and they only had a one run lead to hand off to Kimbrel.
And of course Kimbrel nearly blew that lead. He looked bad. His command was off - again, and he was fortunate that he didn't give up a walk-off HR - Almonte hammered that pitch foul.
It's a shame. The Kimbrel that pitched for the Braves was among the best for a long time and the Kimbrel that pitched for the Padres pitched very well last year. The Kimbrel that has been pitching for the Sox has been so mediocre.
If the Sox got the Kimbrel that had pitched for the Braves or Pads, I'd still give up Margot, no problem. But the Kimbrel that's pitching for the Red Sox currently - I wouldn't even give up a Basabe brother for him.
I hope that what Kimbrel's going thru is knee related and not decline related. I'd like to think that there's a dominant closer there just like I'd like to think that Price will revert back to being an ace.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 15, 2016 20:33:18 GMT -5
I know I annoy some of you by defending Farrell constantly, but I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I just like the dude. He absolutely is getting fired this year unless the Red Sox win a WS title, so I'm pretty aware I already lost any discussion regarding him. I like the manager. I don't mind most of the complaining. I try to save my defense of his for the more silly complaints. I don't have your energy. Good win. Two good starts in a row for Drew. Kimbrel had a 16 pitch ab. Any pitcher that throws that many pitches to the same hitter and wins deserves a tip of the cap.
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