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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 9, 2020 23:28:28 GMT -5
Does there come a time when certain teams are just eliminated from consideration from the playoff hunt period? Some teams already being 8 games back will be tough to make up. Games missed in the future by any other team suffering the same will be tough also if this happens.
Shame? yes. Boston lost a PO tie back in.. '72 think it was by a half game to detroit for a game not played. Games don't have to be totally equal, but having some teams play 5-6 more is wrong and it's going to happen without either killing the season, or eliminating teams. People are going to respond and say this is incorrect on so many levels, but you just watch.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 10, 2020 8:25:56 GMT -5
Not quite sure what your question is. Are you saying because they haven't played enough games?
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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 10, 2020 8:53:42 GMT -5
Yes. Think the issue will come up real soon and MLB isn't going to be able to put off the questions of how to fit in 2-3 DH a week for some teams and complaints by the MLBPA forever, even if enough players are deemed "clean".
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Post by manfred on Aug 10, 2020 8:55:51 GMT -5
I don’t know if this was John’s question, but when does MLB consider dropping the Cardinals? They are falling so far behind in games. And it starts to undermine credibility (whatever there is) if they make it up with 7-inning games — and if they play fewer games, going by win % is really problematic, too.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 10, 2020 9:03:27 GMT -5
I can see both sides, yet with expanded playoffs and so many teams getting in I don't see an issue. Let the playoffs eliminate teams. In a regular season it would be a huge issue, yet this isn't a regular season. The Cardinals for example if they get in with win percentage would be what taking a teams spot under .500?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 10, 2020 9:20:02 GMT -5
Call me cynical but if either the strip club Marlins or casino Cardinals missed the playoffs because they missed some games, I wouldn't be at all bothered.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 10, 2020 13:02:16 GMT -5
I don’t know if this was John’s question, but when does MLB consider dropping the Cardinals? They are falling so far behind in games. And it starts to undermine credibility (whatever there is) if they make it up with 7-inning games — and if they play fewer games, going by win % is really problematic, too. How can they just drop one team though? There'd be 9 teams in the central "division." Do they rejigger the schedule so that one team gets off every day? Do they just have Cardinals' opponents sitting idle for the dates they would've been playing (and have every team in the division play ten fewer games)? Or do they disqualify the Cardinals from the playoffs but make them keep playing games for the sake of the other teams? Not sure I see a good solution here.
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Post by soxin8 on Aug 10, 2020 14:16:49 GMT -5
Does there come a time when certain teams are just eliminated from consideration from the playoff hunt period? Some teams already being 8 games back will be tough to make up. Games missed in the future by any other team suffering the same will be tough also if this happens. Shame? yes. Boston lost a PO tie back in.. '72 think it was by a half game to detroit for a game not played. Games don't have to be totally equal, but having some teams play 5-6 more is wrong and it's going to happen without either killing the season, or eliminating teams. People are going to respond and say this is incorrect on so many levels, but you just watch. Aparicio falling rounding third was a big play in that series. bosoxinjection.com/2017/08/30/red-sox-franchise-historic-collapses/4/
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 10, 2020 14:21:14 GMT -5
Call me cynical but if either the strip club Marlins or casino Cardinals missed the playoffs because they missed some games, I wouldn't be at all bothered. I have zero worries about that, it's the opposite of that no? What if they play 40 games and get in on winning percentage over teams with more wins? It's the them being stupid could help them stuff.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 10, 2020 14:43:08 GMT -5
I mean we're already playing a 60-game season. There's nothing normal about this, so I don't see why a team having to catch up playing 7-inning doubleheaders delegitimizes it or anything.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 10, 2020 14:45:13 GMT -5
That might be a factor to consider but I'd guess that would depend on how "tight" the team was. Let's go crazy here and assume the Red Sox have a disappointing season. Who would you think would opt out ? *raises hand for who made the suggestion* Anyone can opt out. I wouldn't say one guy is more likely than another. We've already had two opt outs that I know of, Lorenzo Cain (34) and Isan Diaz (24). If I were a gambling man, JD Martinez would be on my suspected list, especially if he's looking for a new contract. Xander is another one who doesn't have much to play for. Marcus Stroman just opted out, apparently right after getting enough service time that he'd hit free agency this winter. So there ya go. As I just saw in a tweet, I'm not going to judge him for opting out because the concerns are legit and I'm not going to fault anyone for doing so, especially with the number of guys getting sick, but wow that's going to be an interesting free agency case.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Aug 10, 2020 15:08:09 GMT -5
It’s ok to be cynical and think Stroman is working the system and opted out not because of an overwhelming concern about the virus but because he does the least amount of work while causing himself the least amount of financial consequences.
Nobody can question him about his motive because only he really knows what’s in his head/heart about this.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 10, 2020 15:17:11 GMT -5
It’s ok to be cynical and think Stroman is working the system and opted out not because of an overwhelming concern about the virus but because he does the least amount of work while causing himself the least amount of financial consequences. Nobody can question him about his motive because only he really knows what’s in his head/heart about this. If teams are going to manipulate the service time of their top prospects and brazenly lie about it ("he needs to stay in AAA for 3 more weeks to work on his defense, even though he's hitting .480"), I am not going to blame the players even one tiny bit for doing the same thing. But aside from that, he is giving up money by opting out, in terms of this year's salary and possibly in terms of what kind of free agent contract he might get. His action would make no sense if covid concerns aren't at least part of his calculation.
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Post by manfred on Aug 10, 2020 15:30:57 GMT -5
Stroman is actually doing the Mets a solid. He is hurt and may well not be able to play at all this year. So this is really a choice between the IL and just going home.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 10, 2020 16:02:08 GMT -5
Stroman is actually doing the Mets a solid. He is hurt and may well not be able to play at all this year. So this is really a choice between the IL and just going home. www.mlb.com/news/marcus-stroman-confident-in-injury-recoveryHe was week to week, he was most likely going to come back. Not sure how this is a solid to the Mets who traded for him to help them win this year.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 10, 2020 16:05:55 GMT -5
Yeah Rojas said he was taken completely by surprise and he was throwing a sim game tomorrow.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 10, 2020 16:07:11 GMT -5
It’s ok to be cynical and think Stroman is working the system and opted out not because of an overwhelming concern about the virus but because he does the least amount of work while causing himself the least amount of financial consequences. Nobody can question him about his motive because only he really knows what’s in his head/heart about this. If teams are going to manipulate the service time of their top prospects and brazenly lie about it ("he needs to stay in AAA for 3 more weeks to work on his defense, even though he's hitting .480"), I am not going to blame the players even one tiny bit for doing the same thing. But aside from that, he is giving up money by opting out, in terms of this year's salary and possibly in terms of what kind of free agent contract he might get. His action would make no sense if covid concerns aren't at least part of his calculation. This is probably where I fall, roughly. I'm just more interested in how teams will view this. I'm sure some team that needs a starter (AHEM) will probably not care.
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Post by manfred on Aug 10, 2020 16:12:55 GMT -5
I didn’t mean literally that helping the Mets was a motivation. I just meant that this is not as bad as, well, Cespedes, who was actually playing just vanishing, and at least the team saves money on a guy who might not have contributed much.
I certainly hope the Red Sox don’t pursue Stroman... I’ve never been sold on him.
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Post by terriblehondo on Aug 10, 2020 16:46:14 GMT -5
On Stroman he did not do anything different than teams do by screwing with service time. If teams do it why not players. I don't like it but turnabout is fair play.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 10, 2020 19:48:37 GMT -5
Jon Heyman @jonheyman · 53m Hear Indians starter Mike Clevinger sat through a team meeting yesterday and defended Zach Plesac knowing he’d been out with Plesac, then flew back with the team. Now, the Indians discover Clevinger was out with Plesac and so they have appropriately quarantined Clevinger.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 10, 2020 22:06:23 GMT -5
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Post by sdiaz1 on Aug 10, 2020 22:29:59 GMT -5
It’s ok to be cynical and think Stroman is working the system and opted out not because of an overwhelming concern about the virus but because he does the least amount of work while causing himself the least amount of financial consequences. Nobody can question him about his motive because only he really knows what’s in his head/heart about this. If teams are going to manipulate the service time of their top prospects and brazenly lie about it ("he needs to stay in AAA for 3 more weeks to work on his defense, even though he's hitting .480"), I am not going to blame the players even one tiny bit for doing the same thing. But aside from that, he is giving up money by opting out, in terms of this year's salary and possibly in terms of what kind of free agent contract he might get. His action would make no sense if covid concerns aren't at least part of his calculation. Stroman did what was in the best interest for his and his family's financial future... To that, I say good for him. If MLB teams chose to pay MILB players a living wage and did not play games to manipulate young players' service time, then maybe I would feel different. But they do not and have shown little interest in rectifying that injustice.... Honestly, I hope that more players follow this route.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Aug 10, 2020 22:31:36 GMT -5
Laureano sounds like a stand up dude who understandably made a dumb decision. Hopefully he does not get punished to severely for taking the bait.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 10, 2020 22:58:27 GMT -5
*raises hand for who made the suggestion* Anyone can opt out. I wouldn't say one guy is more likely than another. We've already had two opt outs that I know of, Lorenzo Cain (34) and Isan Diaz (24). If I were a gambling man, JD Martinez would be on my suspected list, especially if he's looking for a new contract. Xander is another one who doesn't have much to play for. Marcus Stroman just opted out, apparently right after getting enough service time that he'd hit free agency this winter. So there ya go. As I just saw in a tweet, I'm not going to judge him for opting out because the concerns are legit and I'm not going to fault anyone for doing so, especially with the number of guys getting sick, but wow that's going to be an interesting free agency case. That's very interesting. I'm surprised there wasn't any sort of negotiation about this. Like, if someone needs certain service time that they don't need to bother to show up just to do the minimal and leave. Interesting about the Mets though who also just had a player not even bother to inform the team and just went home.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 11, 2020 8:02:17 GMT -5
The Athletic MLB @theathleticmlb · 18m "Put yourself in Carlos Carrasco’s cleats for a moment." You’re 1/5 of a rotation recording historic numbers You were diagnosed 14 months ago with leukemia You learn that fellow pitchers Clevinger and Plesac broke team protocols
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