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Patriots 2020 season thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 2, 2021 8:12:35 GMT -5
One top 50 recruit since 2016. Brian Kelly is a good coach and that was a good team. Yet every big bowl game the other teams just have way more talent. It frankly wasn't a horrible showing, holding Bama to it's lowest point total of the year and actually beating the spread. Look at 2021 recruiting, Notre Dame #7 with 9 top 300 guys, Bama has 20 and a bunch of the crazy elite ones. Ohio State 17, Georgia 15, LSU 14, Clemson 15. Now multiple that by four years. Notre Dame is right there, top ten type team most years. Yet that school with it's admissions just can't get the recruits other schools can, even when they have great seasons. It's sad, the one team of mine that likely never wins a championship and to make matters worse they keep giving you hope. Only to crush it year after year. |
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Post by cdj on Jan 2, 2021 13:41:20 GMT -5
You are putting way too much stock into what teammates are saying publicly about other teammates when asked. They’re not gonna be like “he’s ok I guess!” I think it’s far more likely that he sucks than anything else. I’m an optimist and a homer too. I guess we will just have to see who is proven correct with time And sure, I have seen those young QBs. Jones flashes on occasion, the other two really haven’t. Stidham hasn’t flashed. He made one good throw on like a 4 yard fade against the chiefs and otherwise was brutal that game. He threw a wide open slant to gunner on a team that had given up. Other than that he’s looked positively terrible and I imagine that a team that was trying to compete with their biggest weakness being QB would have went with him if he was any good He might make the team next year. If they draft a QB early I don’t know if he will. I’d say there’s like a 25% chance they just cut him It’s not like he was even good at Auburn. The system was miserable but still- he wasn’t really standing out at the college level. It’s not a shock that he doesn’t look good At the NFL level I’m willing to evaluate him next year with a (hopefully) full camp but I’m not optimistic Given that Bill basically talks in riddles, usually never giving you anything. I've found what teammates say to be the best information on young QBs over the years. It's what they say, sure you don't expect negative crap, yet Stidham has gotten much more than your standard he's doing fine stuff. Much more in line with Cassel and Hoyer, the crap you didn't hear about guys like Mallet. Brooks last year, how he can see major improvement, White can see him being a starter when he gets his chance. Maybe it's me hearing what I want. Yet Stidham has gotten a ton of that. At the minimum he's earned his teammates respect and that's big for a young QB. Against the Chiefs Stidham showed exactly what we've needed all year. The pass interference call was him throwing a receiver open. Something Newton hasn't shown all year. Plus the ability to throw a TD inside the ten yard line, again throwing a WR open. He surely hasn't looked great in limited action, yet those types of timing plays show his upside as a passer. He gets our offense and can make plays that we need. He just needs more experience, he's got those jumpy feet so many young QBs have. Yet time and time again we've seen QBs fix that. Sorry yet your not an optimist, like come on. The guy hasn't started a game, heck he's never even played a full half of football and you've written him off. 2017 Stidham was very good, was talked about as first round pick. 2018 they lost a ton of talent to NFL and he wasn't that great. That's the truth. Kinda crazy your saying your an optimist and then basically making things up to make him seem worse than he was. Looked great in 2019 preseason playing with players he was comfortable with. Building an instant bond with Meyers. This year it's scout team, he's never had a week playing with regulars. Bills doing him zero favors throwing him into games without that. Eagles made Hurts the starter, so he got the best possible chance to succeed. Seeing articles about Bill and Newton's love fest, wish they had more time together. I'm not liking this narrative. Like a short camp, no preseason and Covid is Newton's issue. If anything those issues hurt Stidham and helped Newton. I can literally picture the press conference to announce the Patriots have resigned Newton. I do think the best time to fully judge Stidham will be next preseason after a normal summer of OTAs, a full training camp and four preseason games. If he doesn't show improvement I'll start to agree. If you think he sucks why only 25% chance he gets cut? Against the chiefs he showed “exactly what we needed all year”? Yeah we aren’t gonna agree And 25% because A) he’s cheap and has been in the system and B) the bar to be a backup QB isn’t exactly high He got worse every single season in college, and he did a decent job as a sophomore. Sweet. He’s not Ryan Mallett. A very high bar has clearly been set. I will say this though- Mallett has won 3 NFL games. Wouldn’t shock me if Stidham doesn’t get there. I just don’t understand what you think you’ve heard outside of teammates saying “yeah we believe in him!” When asked about him when he was looking like the starter. He has a good arm, zero imagination, and makes bad decisions often |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 2, 2021 14:11:51 GMT -5
Given that Bill basically talks in riddles, usually never giving you anything. I've found what teammates say to be the best information on young QBs over the years. It's what they say, sure you don't expect negative crap, yet Stidham has gotten much more than your standard he's doing fine stuff. Much more in line with Cassel and Hoyer, the crap you didn't hear about guys like Mallet. Brooks last year, how he can see major improvement, White can see him being a starter when he gets his chance. Maybe it's me hearing what I want. Yet Stidham has gotten a ton of that. At the minimum he's earned his teammates respect and that's big for a young QB. Against the Chiefs Stidham showed exactly what we've needed all year. The pass interference call was him throwing a receiver open. Something Newton hasn't shown all year. Plus the ability to throw a TD inside the ten yard line, again throwing a WR open. He surely hasn't looked great in limited action, yet those types of timing plays show his upside as a passer. He gets our offense and can make plays that we need. He just needs more experience, he's got those jumpy feet so many young QBs have. Yet time and time again we've seen QBs fix that. Sorry yet your not an optimist, like come on. The guy hasn't started a game, heck he's never even played a full half of football and you've written him off. 2017 Stidham was very good, was talked about as first round pick. 2018 they lost a ton of talent to NFL and he wasn't that great. That's the truth. Kinda crazy your saying your an optimist and then basically making things up to make him seem worse than he was. Looked great in 2019 preseason playing with players he was comfortable with. Building an instant bond with Meyers. This year it's scout team, he's never had a week playing with regulars. Bills doing him zero favors throwing him into games without that. Eagles made Hurts the starter, so he got the best possible chance to succeed. Seeing articles about Bill and Newton's love fest, wish they had more time together. I'm not liking this narrative. Like a short camp, no preseason and Covid is Newton's issue. If anything those issues hurt Stidham and helped Newton. I can literally picture the press conference to announce the Patriots have resigned Newton. I do think the best time to fully judge Stidham will be next preseason after a normal summer of OTAs, a full training camp and four preseason games. If he doesn't show improvement I'll start to agree. If you think he sucks why only 25% chance he gets cut? Against the chiefs he showed “exactly what we needed all year”? Yeah we aren’t gonna agree And 25% because A) he’s cheap and has been in the system and B) the bar to be a backup QB isn’t exactly high He got worse every single season in college, and he did a decent job as a sophomore. Sweet. He’s not Ryan Mallett. A very high bar has clearly been set. I will say this though- Mallett has won 3 NFL games. Wouldn’t shock me if Stidham doesn’t get there. I just don’t understand what you think you’ve heard outside of teammates saying “yeah we believe in him!” When asked about him when he was looking like the starter. He has a good arm, zero imagination, and makes bad decisions often This is from December 22 2020, yeah I think I'll trust James White who's seen him for two years over your expert opinion. |
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Post by cdj on Jan 2, 2021 15:18:22 GMT -5
Against the chiefs he showed “exactly what we needed all year”? Yeah we aren’t gonna agree And 25% because A) he’s cheap and has been in the system and B) the bar to be a backup QB isn’t exactly high He got worse every single season in college, and he did a decent job as a sophomore. Sweet. He’s not Ryan Mallett. A very high bar has clearly been set. I will say this though- Mallett has won 3 NFL games. Wouldn’t shock me if Stidham doesn’t get there. I just don’t understand what you think you’ve heard outside of teammates saying “yeah we believe in him!” When asked about him when he was looking like the starter. He has a good arm, zero imagination, and makes bad decisions often This is from December 22 2020, yeah I think I'll trust James White who's seen him for two years over your expert opinion. Lololol @ thinking a good teammate would say anything other than that when asked But yeah I mean your appeal to authority really proved a whole lot. here is my appeal to authority- the best coach ever refuses to play him over a garbage QB even with this “fervent support” from his teammates lol. Has nothing to do with “respect for Newton”. He doesn’t think stidham gives them a better chance to win Reasonable people see his play on the field in combination with the decisions the team is making and can see the truth but live in your fantasy land. He’s Aaron Rodgers, not a bum ass 4th round pick! Jarret Stidbum |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 2, 2021 15:26:27 GMT -5
Lololol @ thinking a good teammate would say anything other than that when asked But yeah I mean your appeal to authority really proved a whole lot. Reasonable people see his play on the field in combination with the decisions the team is making and can see the truth but live in your fantasy land. He’s Aaron Rodgers, not a bum ass 4th round pick! Jarret Stidbum These two takes are the same just from opposite ends. We haven’t seen enough of Stidham to know much if anything. He’s shown flashes of ability and plenty of stink with no real true preparation for us to say if he’s been given a real opportunity to succeed. |
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Post by cdj on Jan 2, 2021 15:27:47 GMT -5
Lololol @ thinking a good teammate would say anything other than that when asked But yeah I mean your appeal to authority really proved a whole lot. Reasonable people see his play on the field in combination with the decisions the team is making and can see the truth but live in your fantasy land. He’s Aaron Rodgers, not a bum ass 4th round pick! Jarret Stidbum These two takes are the same just from opposite ends. We haven’t seen enough of Stidham to know much if anything. He’s shown flashes of ability and plenty of stink with no real true preparation for us to say if he’s been given a real opportunity to succeed. And then you have to wonder why he hasn’t gotten that opportunity when the worst passer in the league is our QB and When they were trying to get into the playoffs (up until recently) Kinda answers the whole “is he good?” Question I also haven’t seen him really flash outside of preseason football, which I do not take seriously at all |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 2, 2021 17:40:37 GMT -5
These two takes are the same just from opposite ends. We haven’t seen enough of Stidham to know much if anything. He’s shown flashes of ability and plenty of stink with no real true preparation for us to say if he’s been given a real opportunity to succeed. And then you have to wonder why he hasn’t gotten that opportunity when the worst passer in the league is our QB and When they were trying to get into the playoffs (up until recently) Kinda answers the whole “is he good?” Question I also haven’t seen him really flash outside of preseason football, which I do not take seriously at all Ask away, but draw definite conclusions at your own risk. When Stidham was drafted, I doubt you would have said if he could start by year 2 he’d be a bust. |
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Post by cdj on Jan 2, 2021 21:15:59 GMT -5
And then you have to wonder why he hasn’t gotten that opportunity when the worst passer in the league is our QB and When they were trying to get into the playoffs (up until recently) Kinda answers the whole “is he good?” Question I also haven’t seen him really flash outside of preseason football, which I do not take seriously at all Ask away, but draw definite conclusions at your own risk. When Stidham was drafted, I doubt you would have said if he could start by year 2 he’d be a bust. I would rule him a bust if he looked like garbage and couldn’t take the job from a guy that has major issues throwing a 5 yard flat I would love nothing more than to be wrong. It would mean the QB crisis is over. I think there’s about a 0.0000000000000001% chance of that happening Would be sick if they had an effective starting QB was playing on a 4th round pick rookie contract... I’ve said it before I want him to start this week- but there’s a reason why he’s not. It’s not like they’d be starting him against the dolphins and throwing him into the fire. And that in itself is also telling that they are facing quite literally the second worst team in football (with an awful secondary) and they’re like “nahhhhh not worth playing him”. That’s not asking a whole lot to have somebody to go out there and not shit the bed against the Jets. I just have seen nothing to suggest that he’s starter quality. I mean some people can use James White quotes to assess Stidham but that’s downright silly. As if White is going to respond to the media and be like “yeah I don’t know if he can start, he kinda sucks!”. Using eyes instead of teammates lip service would be my recommendation to make this evaluation. Just take a look at what’s happening. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 3, 2021 0:25:23 GMT -5
How soon we forget the best QB ever wasn't all that great to start his career. Yet he just kept getting better. Stidham has thrown 44 passes this year 256 yards, two TDs and three interceptions.
Brady's first game 1-3 6 yards, second game 5-10 46 yards, then first start 12-23 168 yards, second start 12-24 86 yards, wasn't till third start he threw his first TD and had a big game 33-54 364 and 2 TDs.
I'm not for one second saying he's Brady, just showing how foolish it is to judge a guy on such a limited sample size and how players can keep getting better.
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Post by cdj on Jan 3, 2021 0:46:08 GMT -5
Yeah he could be Brady or Rodgers or he could be Mallett or Kevin O’Connell
Judging by what you’ve seen from him on the field and what has played out on the team this year which do you think is most likely? Again this is going back to the hearing hooves in the distance in rural North Carolina and thinking its a zebra and not a horse
I mean our starting QB is just so miserable at throwing the football. Since he got covid he’s probably been a bottom 3 starting QB in football. Could be the worst. They still had mild success for a little bit in spite of that. Remained “in the hunt” (meh) until a couple weeks ago at least.. Belichick always tries to win. If Stidham represented an upgrade he would have been in there. Hell, he would have started the Kansas City game. It’s not like he’s a rookie, he knew the playbook. They clearly feel they have a good grasp on his talent level judging by the comments. It’s just putting 2 + 2 together
Unless they are purposely tanking and that’s why Cam is playing, in which case disregard everything I’ve said. But I don’t see BB doing that intentionally lol
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 3, 2021 9:48:21 GMT -5
Yes it is too early to call a guy a bust and Stidham should get the benefit of at least playing a few dames BUT it is also quite damning that BB hasn't given him that shot considering the season Cam has had. All of that is obvious to us fans who follow the Pats closely.
BUT BB has been wrong before on many occasions. Most notably to me is on Edelman. I remember distinctly when Welker went down Edelman got a shot and looked fantastic right from the beginning. When Welker came back Julian was buried again and BB even let him go test free agency before signing him to a lowball contract. The rest is history but it certainly seemed to me that BB didn't realize what he had and could have easily lost JE. Then with the Butler and the Super Bowl once again he showed his stubbornness which quite likely cost the Pats the SB. Love BB for sure but he is not without some warts.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 3, 2021 11:04:01 GMT -5
Per Shefter, Pats and Cam Newton will going separate ways this offseason
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Post by cdj on Jan 3, 2021 11:20:45 GMT -5
Yes it is too early to call a guy a bust and Stidham should get the benefit of at least playing a few dames BUT it is also quite damning that BB hasn't given him that shot considering the season Cam has had. All of that is obvious to us fans who follow the Pats closely. BUT BB has been wrong before on many occasions. Most notably to me is on Edelman. I remember distinctly when Welker went down Edelman got a shot and looked fantastic right from the beginning. When Welker came back Julian was buried again and BB even let him go test free agency before signing him to a lowball contract. The rest is history but it certainly seemed to me that BB didn't realize what he had and could have easily lost JE. Then with the Butler and the Super Bowl once again he showed his stubbornness which quite likely cost the Pats the SB. Love BB for sure but he is not without some warts. On the flip side of that I don’t think many coaches would’ve kept Jules on the roster through his early years like he did. Also is it a lowball contract if nobody else offers better? |
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Post by cdj on Jan 3, 2021 11:21:22 GMT -5
Per Shefter, Pats and Cam Newton will going separate ways this offseason So we know for a fact he has no future here yet he is playing in week 17. Can’t wait to see how this is spun as a positive for Stidham |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 3, 2021 12:13:36 GMT -5
Per Shefter, Pats and Cam Newton will going separate ways this offseason So we know for a fact he has no future here yet he is playing in week 17. Can’t wait to see how this is spun as a positive for Stidham Reports aren’t the same as facts |
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Post by cdj on Jan 3, 2021 13:16:33 GMT -5
OF COURSE the offense looked like dynamite on the first drive. OF COURSE. Pick 15 here we come!
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 3, 2021 13:17:53 GMT -5
Yes it is too early to call a guy a bust and Stidham should get the benefit of at least playing a few dames BUT it is also quite damning that BB hasn't given him that shot considering the season Cam has had. All of that is obvious to us fans who follow the Pats closely. BUT BB has been wrong before on many occasions. Most notably to me is on Edelman. I remember distinctly when Welker went down Edelman got a shot and looked fantastic right from the beginning. When Welker came back Julian was buried again and BB even let him go test free agency before signing him to a lowball contract. The rest is history but it certainly seemed to me that BB didn't realize what he had and could have easily lost JE. Then with the Butler and the Super Bowl once again he showed his stubbornness which quite likely cost the Pats the SB. Love BB for sure but he is not without some warts. On the flip side of that I don’t think many coaches would’ve kept Jules on the roster through his early years like he did. Also is it a lowball contract if nobody else offers better? He was just about the best punt returner in the game at the time so making the roster wasn't a question. And he risked losing him for small dollars based on BB's thinking. IMO |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 3, 2021 13:18:53 GMT -5
Today is the first time I have rooted against the Pats in over 45 years.
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Post by cdj on Jan 3, 2021 13:32:12 GMT -5
On the flip side of that I don’t think many coaches would’ve kept Jules on the roster through his early years like he did. Also is it a lowball contract if nobody else offers better? He was just about the best punt returner in the game at the time so making the roster wasn't a question. And he risked losing him for small dollars based on BB's thinking. IMO But he didn’t because nobody offered more (or at least a significant amount more). So at the end of the day while it sucks for Jules it was smart of BB People were writing roster bubble articles about him at some point, I bet I could find one. Same on rooting against the pats lol |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 3, 2021 14:33:04 GMT -5
They better find a QB because I can’t go through another season of D team announcers.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Jan 3, 2021 15:29:22 GMT -5
Worst win all time. This win might cost you 2-4 places in the draft.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jan 3, 2021 16:02:33 GMT -5
Worst win all time. This winter might cost you 2-4 places in the draft. Even at rock bottom with a ton of injuries, it's hard to be Jets bad…they just set the bar so low |
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Post by cdj on Jan 3, 2021 16:36:35 GMT -5
Glad Cam had a nice game I guess. I’d have him back in a Taysom Hill role but that’s about it
Asking them to lose to the Jets was probably a bridge too far
Nice to see Asiasi do something. Sony had a good year when healthy
I hope they don’t lose out on Trey Lance because of this win
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jan 3, 2021 16:56:29 GMT -5
.this is the best place for a tiebreaker chart Work in progress | Wildcard tiebreakers | Miami | Cleve | Balt | Tenn | Indy | | Miami | --- | ZZZ | ZZZ | TENN
common | MIA
conf | | Cleve | ZZZ | --- | BALT
h2h | ZZZ | CLEVE
h2h | | Balt | ZZZ | BALT
h2h | --- | ZZZ | BALT
h2h | | Tenn | TENN
common | ZZZ | ZZZ | --- | TENN
div | | Indy | MIA
conf | CLEVE
h2h | BALT
h2h | TENN
div | --- |
UPDATED SUNDAY 500PM. Following Browns victory. Also, Tenn can tie Miami at 10-6. ZZZ means this tie can no longer occur. |
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Post by costpet on Jan 4, 2021 11:26:41 GMT -5
At least we have Brady, Gronk, and Brown to cheer for, like the old days. Wouldn't mind Vrabel doing well, either. Glad to see Miami missing the playoffs. They bug me for some reason. Bills could give KC some trouble. Rogers vs Brady would be a heck of a game. Could be Brady vs Bills in the SB. Has he ever lost to them?
Pitchers and Catchers and the Truck heading to Florida in about 6 weeks.
Picking at straws.
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