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The Future Of Center Field
Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 17:47:11 GMT -5
Who are the internal replacements for X, Eovaldi, and JDM? Am I missing the #1 starter they have ready to go? The guys ready to step in as two of their best 3 hitters? Casas isn’t “replacing” anyone: he is filling a gaping hole at 1b. Who else is it that is close to cycling in? The exact quote is…. “Its no secret that multiple positions on the Red Sox this year have been horrifically underwhelming (C, 1st, 2nd, RF, CF). The one I am most concerned about is center field. There is no one currently in the system that projects to be able to handle it in the next two years….”. He stated players in the system! He did not say comparable talent level. Let it to Manfred to take things out of context!
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Post by manfred on May 16, 2022 18:21:19 GMT -5
Who are the internal replacements for X, Eovaldi, and JDM? Am I missing the #1 starter they have ready to go? The guys ready to step in as two of their best 3 hitters? Casas isn’t “replacing” anyone: he is filling a gaping hole at 1b. Who else is it that is close to cycling in? The exact quote is…. “Its no secret that multiple positions on the Red Sox this year have been horrifically underwhelming (C, 1st, 2nd, RF, CF). The one I am most concerned about is center field. There is no one currently in the system that projects to be able to handle it in the next two years….”. He stated players in the system! He did not say comparable talent level. Let it to Manfred to take things out of context! I was responding to “I could see Bloom selling off major pieces the Red Sox have internal replacements for (Bogaerts, Martinez, Eovaldi)…” — so my question was almost verbatim. I have no doubt they have bodies to replace people, but in all three of those cases they lack anyone even close to being as good. I did not expect that to be a shocking claim. A frontline starter, an all star DH, and a potential HOFer… not so easy to replace, especially in one off season.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 16, 2022 22:15:21 GMT -5
Laureano and Reynolds are very good targets I don’t see the O’s moving Mullins within the division and Varsho is such a unique player I think it would be really hard to get him Like honestly, who the hell plays good defense at catcher AND in CF? The rumored asking price for Reynolds is crazy from what ive read. I believe they asked for meyer and another one of the marlins best prospects. Well, he was good for 6 WAR last year and has four years of control left (including this year). Hard to blame Cherry for setting the price high.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 16, 2022 22:39:26 GMT -5
In terms of someone to platoon with JBJ, I'm guessing that's why Refsnyder is in the system, after a 122 wRC+ vs LHP with the Twins in limited play last year. He's been crushing it in Worcester early although he's actually hitting much better vs RHP thus far. All SSS but he was a cheap flyer with big league experience and could still play his way back to the Show.
If you want to trade for a guy with a little control left, you could do worse than Austin Slater (SF). Good fielder but has been hitting well and playing enough that he seems unlikely to be traded in-season if the Giants remain contention. He also kills LHP, so he could platoon with JBJ and also be a late-inning defensive replacement in games he doesn't start.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 19, 2022 14:18:11 GMT -5
Kiké looks cooked based on my read of it but I’m no scout.
Based on where we stand, it probably makes the most sense to take a flier on a buy low guy they could potentially flip at the deadline if we’re bad again next year. Maybe that’s Kiké but it looks like his power and speed are both deteriorating so I’d prefer someone else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 16:17:01 GMT -5
The exact quote is…. “Its no secret that multiple positions on the Red Sox this year have been horrifically underwhelming (C, 1st, 2nd, RF, CF). The one I am most concerned about is center field. There is no one currently in the system that projects to be able to handle it in the next two years….”. He stated players in the system! He did not say comparable talent level. Let it to Manfred to take things out of context! I was responding to “I could see Bloom selling off major pieces the Red Sox have internal replacements for (Bogaerts, Martinez, Eovaldi)…” — so my question was almost verbatim. I have no doubt they have bodies to replace people, but in all three of those cases they lack anyone even close to being as good. I did not expect that to be a shocking claim. A frontline starter, an all star DH, and a potential HOFer… not so easy to replace, especially in one off season. That is not what he meant and you know it.
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Post by manfred on May 19, 2022 16:26:02 GMT -5
I was responding to “I could see Bloom selling off major pieces the Red Sox have internal replacements for (Bogaerts, Martinez, Eovaldi)…” — so my question was almost verbatim. I have no doubt they have bodies to replace people, but in all three of those cases they lack anyone even close to being as good. I did not expect that to be a shocking claim. A frontline starter, an all star DH, and a potential HOFer… not so easy to replace, especially in one off season. That is not what he meant and you know it. Ok… do we have *adequate* replacements? No. Move Story to ss, and play… Downs at 2b? Dude is not impressing in his second AAA rodeo. JDM’s adequate replacement? Nada. In Eovaldi’s case, maaayyybeee Bello is ready next year? I’ll give you that one. But in the other cases, we are barely looking at warm bodies lined up, much less ok replacements, far less good replacements.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 19, 2022 16:44:02 GMT -5
That is not what he meant and you know it. Ok… do we have *adequate* replacements? No. Move Story to ss, and play… Downs at 2b? Dude is not impressing in his second AAA rodeo. JDM’s adequate replacement? Nada. In Eovaldi’s case, maaayyybeee Bello is ready next year? I’ll give you that one. But in the other cases, we are barely looking at warm bodies lined up, much less ok replacements, far less good replacements. He's actually improving and has faced a AAA pitcher younger than him in only 19 of 553 PAs. Ready for Opening Day 2023 in Fenway? Maybe not but he may not be very far off from that.
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Post by incandenza on May 19, 2022 16:57:58 GMT -5
That is not what he meant and you know it. Ok… do we have *adequate* replacements? No. Move Story to ss, and play… Downs at 2b? Dude is not impressing in his second AAA rodeo. JDM’s adequate replacement? Nada. In Eovaldi’s case, maaayyybeee Bello is ready next year? I’ll give you that one. But in the other cases, we are barely looking at warm bodies lined up, much less ok replacements, far less good replacements. Speaking of Eovaldi, it's back to being very questionable whether that was a good signing. He's been worth 5.8 fWAR/5.7 bWAR on this deal; he'd need to rack up about 3 WAR in the remainder of this season for the team to break even on that deal.
Which is to say: I think replacing Eovaldi with whatever Bloom can get for $17 million in the FA market is an opportunity for improvement, even before bringing Bello or the other prospects into it.
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Post by scottysmalls on May 20, 2022 9:46:11 GMT -5
I don't want to talk bad about Xander, but he would have to be about as good 30-40 as he was 20-30 to make the HOF, it's really unlikely he gets there IMO. It doesn't change the overall message but it feels like an intentionally misleading framing. Also, I don't agree with the notion that to make the team better they have to fill every position with equal or better players. They can downgrade a bit at second and improve at first and be better.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 20, 2022 14:25:36 GMT -5
I was thinking about the future of CF and, while it's a SSS, JBJ is .308/.360/.417 for a 131 wRC+ at Fenway this season. Just for yucks, his wRC+ on the road is one (1). Maybe don't let him on the plane?
Meanwhile, Enrique's IFFB is 25%. He's always been pretty high (13.4% career) but that's insane. There's got to be an old-school tip that hitting coaches give to guys who pop up too much.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,509
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Post by cdj on May 20, 2022 14:36:20 GMT -5
What they should do is platoon Kikè and JBJ in CF and acquire a RF
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 20, 2022 20:36:08 GMT -5
What they should do is platoon Kikè and JBJ in CF and acquire a RF Crazy enough that it might work.
Maybe for the present of CF, maybe Kiqué and Refsnyder vs LHP and JBJ and Duran for RHP... of course, the problem with JBJ isn't L/R, it's home/away.
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Post by keninten on May 21, 2022 0:13:35 GMT -5
What they should do is platoon Kikè and JBJ in CF and acquire a RF Crazy enough that it might work.
Maybe for the present of CF, maybe Kiqué and Refsnyder vs LHP and JBJ and Duran for RHP... of course, the problem with JBJ isn't L/R, it's home/away.
I`d hate to be the other half of a home/away split. Has this been done before?
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 21, 2022 1:06:30 GMT -5
Crazy enough that it might work.
Maybe for the present of CF, maybe Kiqué and Refsnyder vs LHP and JBJ and Duran for RHP... of course, the problem with JBJ isn't L/R, it's home/away.
I`d hate to be the other half of a home/away split. Has this been done before? I certainly wouldn't expect one. Maybe back when air travel was less common and a star refused to fly?
It's also still quite a small sample but Jackie has been taking advantage of the Monster early. And maybe his wife took a gourmet cooking class...
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Post by Guidas on May 21, 2022 10:27:17 GMT -5
Go buy Brandon Nimmo in the off-season, let Kiké walk, stick Duran in RF in a sink or swim role for 300 ABs and get him a platoon partner just in case.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 21, 2022 10:31:13 GMT -5
What they should do is platoon Kikè and JBJ in CF and acquire a RF I like the thought process here but I don't think the idea is viable. Too many things would have to fall perfectly into place. - As the strong part of the platoon making $12M in 2023, JBJ has to be a decent player. He is now on pace for about 2 B-Ref WAR. That's pretty incredible for a corner OF with a 65 OPS-plus . It's due to him being at .8 defensive WAR. That doesn't sound sustainable. He has to be better than 2 WAR/150 to be worth that money in 2023.
- KKH is slightly below water in WAR. While he'll certainly get into positive territory, he'll have to be in a pretty narrow band to be a realistic option as a utility guy (the weak-side of the CF platoon who also fills in at 2B and SS on occasion.) If he turns it around enough to have a respectable season, he'll get more on the market than he would be worth to the RS as a platoon player. If he doesn't turn it around, we won't want him back.
If the RS and KKH are willing to agree on, let's say, a $5M deal for him to fill the platoon role, the RS would be paying $17M to fill CF. That's a lot, given the limited production they'd be likely to get. CB can do more with that money, as he showed last year when he paid KKH and Hunter Renfroe a combined $10.M and got a 6.2 WAR.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,844
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 21, 2022 10:37:45 GMT -5
Crazy enough that it might work.
Maybe for the present of CF, maybe Kiqué and Refsnyder vs LHP and JBJ and Duran for RHP... of course, the problem with JBJ isn't L/R, it's home/away.
I`d hate to be the other half of a home/away split. Has this been done before? Does Kyrie Irving count?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,509
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Post by cdj on May 21, 2022 11:13:35 GMT -5
What they should do is platoon Kikè and JBJ in CF and acquire a RF I like the thought process here but I don't think the idea is viable. Too many things would have to fall perfectly into place. - As the strong part of the platoon making $12M in 2023, JBJ has to be a decent player. He is now on pace for about 2 B-Ref WAR. That's pretty incredible for a corner OF with a 65 OPS-plus . It's due to him being at .8 defensive WAR. That doesn't sound sustainable. He has to be better than 2 WAR/150 to be worth that money in 2023.
- KKH is slightly below water in WAR. While he'll certainly get into positive territory, he'll have to be in a pretty narrow band to be a realistic option as a utility guy (the weak-side of the CF platoon who also fills in at 2B and SS on occasion.) If he turns it around enough to have a respectable season, he'll get more on the market than he would be worth to the RS as a platoon player. If he doesn't turn it around, we won't want him back.
If the RS and KKH are willing to agree on, let's say, a $5M deal for him to fill the platoon role, the RS would be paying $17M to fill CF. That's a lot, given the limited production they'd be likely to get. CB can do more with that money, as he showed last year when he paid KKH and Hunter Renfroe a combined $10.M and got a 6.2 WAR.
I could be wrong but isn’t JBJ a free agent after this season? I imagine they could get a platoon with those two at $12 mill total at most Edit: I see it’s a mutual option, that’s interesting
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 21, 2022 11:40:36 GMT -5
I like the thought process here but I don't think the idea is viable. Too many things would have to fall perfectly into place. - As the strong part of the platoon making $12M in 2023, JBJ has to be a decent player. He is now on pace for about 2 B-Ref WAR. That's pretty incredible for a corner OF with a 65 OPS-plus . It's due to him being at .8 defensive WAR. That doesn't sound sustainable. He has to be better than 2 WAR/150 to be worth that money in 2023.
- KKH is slightly below water in WAR. While he'll certainly get into positive territory, he'll have to be in a pretty narrow band to be a realistic option as a utility guy (the weak-side of the CF platoon who also fills in at 2B and SS on occasion.) If he turns it around enough to have a respectable season, he'll get more on the market than he would be worth to the RS as a platoon player. If he doesn't turn it around, we won't want him back.
If the RS and KKH are willing to agree on, let's say, a $5M deal for him to fill the platoon role, the RS would be paying $17M to fill CF. That's a lot, given the limited production they'd be likely to get. CB can do more with that money, as he showed last year when he paid KKH and Hunter Renfroe a combined $10.M and got a 6.2 WAR.
I could be wrong but isn’t JBJ a free agent after this season? I imagine they could get a platoon with those two at $12 mill total at most Edit: I see it’s a mutual option, that’s interesting His mutual option comes with an $8m buyout, so it's essentially a $4m decision for Chaim. Obviously JBJ would count as $12m against the CBT but for all intents and purposes, the $8m is a sunk cost.
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Post by ematz1423 on May 21, 2022 12:16:18 GMT -5
I could be wrong but isn’t JBJ a free agent after this season? I imagine they could get a platoon with those two at $12 mill total at most Edit: I see it’s a mutual option, that’s interesting His mutual option comes with an $8m buyout, so it's essentially a $4m decision for Chaim. Obviously JBJ would count as $12m against the CBT but for all intents and purposes, the $8m is a sunk cost. I think I've seen conflicting reports on what jbj would cost against the CBT next year. Are we sure he'd cost 12 million against it next year if they take the option?
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Post by jodyreidnichols on May 21, 2022 12:45:44 GMT -5
What they should do is platoon Kikè and JBJ in CF and acquire a RF Man could we have used Suzuki and he would only have cost $, not prospectrs.
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Post by bosoxnation on May 21, 2022 16:50:30 GMT -5
Unless we trade Verdugo and Duran and more for Soto which I will dream about every night. It looks like we are going to have an OF of LHH next season with Verdugo, JBJ, Duran which makes resigning X and JD even more important. So is the question next season or the future? Id say the "future" is Duran.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 23, 2022 12:38:01 GMT -5
Seems like a fair time to remind everyone that we set the forum up such that if you type Kiké without the accent, Proboards will add it. In fact I just tested it here.
For those who understandably may be skittish about typing it.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 23, 2022 12:56:11 GMT -5
Seems like a fair time to remind everyone that we set the forum up such that if you type Kiké without the accent, Proboards will add it. In fact I just tested it here. For those who understandably may be skittish about typing it. I prefer Kique (spelled just like Enrique). But I guess everyone gets that there's no malicious intention.
From a technical point of view, there shouldn't even be an accent if the first syllable is meant to be the dominant syllable, which is the only way I've heard it pronounced -- KEE-kay. With the accent, it becomes "kee-KAY". I'm guessing the accent was added in America so it wouldn't look like it does without the accent. Would have been just as easy to change the spelling to Kique.
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