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7/15-7/17 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by Guidas on Jul 17, 2022 14:57:06 GMT -5
One of the things about Bloom’s spaghetti throwing is that, yes, it yields a guy like Wacha. But then you also have Ottavino last year, Richards, Diekman… guys who are just soul crushing. I don’t know that the good outweighs the bad. We’re going to have a bunch of payroll flexibility this off-season, the question is how we can even spend it? This free agent class isn’t great… Correct. Last year's market was loaded, however, and in positions of need for the Red Sox. Given that, imagine if a bold GM went over the luxury tax limit since it had been re-set to get some top performers in positions of need knowing you only had to carry the tax-exceeding payroll for one year. Instead, except for 6 weeks where the schedule got soft, this looks like 2014 after 2013, sans World Series title in hand. The luck has been bad, sure, but no one of significance other than Story was added. Even with him, did anyone really think a team that over-performed in numerous areas would repeat such excellence again?
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 17, 2022 14:58:08 GMT -5
I still feel like letting Schwarber go is the "one that got away" for Chaim. Always a 90th percentile barrel percentage and exit velocity, all you needed to do was stash him for a year in the field before JDM left. His contract wasn't bad either. The sad thing with Chaim is that I think he's nailing 80% or more of the job, it's just in the most important ones (roster construction, big name contracts) it's an incomplete grade at best. We had a 1B that should be up by now (Casas). But you know. He got injured. And i dont think even the biggest doomer thought that xander and JDM would be having this big of a power outage this season
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Post by incandenza on Jul 17, 2022 14:58:58 GMT -5
I still feel like letting Schwarber go is the "one that got away" for Chaim. Always a 90th percentile barrel percentage and exit velocity, all you needed to do was stash him for a year in the field before JDM left. His contract wasn't bad either. The sad thing with Chaim is that I think he's nailing 80% or more of the job, it's just in the most important ones (roster construction, big name contracts) it's an incomplete grade at best. I wanted to bring back Schwarber too, but we're like 3-4 years away from knowing whether that really would have been a better investment than Story.
So like you said, it's an incomplete grade - but I don't see how you can blame him for that.
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Post by terriblehondo on Jul 17, 2022 15:01:18 GMT -5
It leaves me thinking how horrible this team will be next year when JD and X opt out and they trade Raffy because he will cost to much. JD is not a loss. He's on pace for 2.6 B-Ref WAR and that's with his fast start - the same kind of fast start he had last year before dropping off. The WAR number doesn't account for the fact that you're devoting an entire roster spot to a guy who can only DH. I'll be glad to have the $22M in AAV freed up. I wouldn't disagree so much on JD if he wasn't one of the Sox better hitters.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Jul 17, 2022 15:02:22 GMT -5
Downs owns Cole!
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Post by Guidas on Jul 17, 2022 15:03:44 GMT -5
I still feel like letting Schwarber go is the "one that got away" for Chaim. Always a 90th percentile barrel percentage and exit velocity, all you needed to do was stash him for a year in the field before JDM left. His contract wasn't bad either. The sad thing with Chaim is that I think he's nailing 80% or more of the job, i t's just in the most important ones (roster construction, big name contracts) it's an incomplete grade at best. So, shows up to work on time, says all the right non-commital, banal, obtuse things politely to the media, brings doughnuts for everyone, does the perfunctory things well, had perhaps the best player in amateur baseball last year fall in his lap, but the stuff that really matters, he's...uh...um. Don't worry, folks. He's only your chief executive and "vision guy." Also: "Trust the process" was a phrase originated by the Philadelphia Seventy Sixers. And they are still losers. But, hey, great process.
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Post by manfred on Jul 17, 2022 15:04:03 GMT -5
I still feel like letting Schwarber go is the "one that got away" for Chaim. Always a 90th percentile barrel percentage and exit velocity, all you needed to do was stash him for a year in the field before JDM left. His contract wasn't bad either. The sad thing with Chaim is that I think he's nailing 80% or more of the job, it's just in the most important ones (roster construction, big name contracts) it's an incomplete grade at best. We had a 1B that should be up by now (Casas). But you know. He got injured. And i dont think even the biggest doomer thought that xander and JDM would be having this big of a power outage this season Maybe Casas would be up now. And if he were, how do we know he comes up raking? I don’t think one can point to his injury as a reason the Sox have disappointed. And power outage or no, neither X nor JDM is to blame. They have played well enough that if the Sox did not have multiple black holes, all would be fine. How is it people point to X, who is actually having a pretty good year, and no one wants to say, for example, that Verdugo is slugging .373 — but has a lower OBP than X’s BA?
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 17, 2022 15:08:07 GMT -5
We had a 1B that should be up by now (Casas). But you know. He got injured. And i dont think even the biggest doomer thought that xander and JDM would be having this big of a power outage this season Maybe Casas would be up now. And if he were, how do we know he comes up raking? I don’t think one can point to his injury as a reason the Sox have disappointed. And power outage or no, neither X nor JDM is to blame. They have played well enough that if the Sox did not have multiple black holes, all would be fine. How is it people point to X, who is actually having a pretty good year, and no one wants to say, for example, that Verdugo is slugging .373 — but has a lower OBP than X’s BA? You cant be serious with this. They are having career worst Power numbers so far. You really think they are not partially responsible for why this team is where they are? I mean xander went more than a month without hitting a home run. You really think that didnt have any impact on our current record? He and JDM were supposed to be our middle of the order bats. And they have been far from that.
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Post by manfred on Jul 17, 2022 15:08:35 GMT -5
I still feel like letting Schwarber go is the "one that got away" for Chaim. Always a 90th percentile barrel percentage and exit velocity, all you needed to do was stash him for a year in the field before JDM left. His contract wasn't bad either. The sad thing with Chaim is that I think he's nailing 80% or more of the job, it's just in the most important ones (roster construction, big name contracts) it's an incomplete grade at best. I wanted to bring back Schwarber too, but we're like 3-4 years away from knowing whether that really would have been a better investment than Story.
So like you said, it's an incomplete grade - but I don't see how you can blame him for that.
They are not mutually exclusive though. As the OP said, you’d have Schwarber overlapping JDM for one year. So the additional salary would effectively be for a single season. How to make up the difference? Don’t sign Paxton who — if he returns — will likely be too late to matter much. I likely would pass on Hill, too,
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jul 17, 2022 15:09:48 GMT -5
One of the things about Bloom’s spaghetti throwing is that, yes, it yields a guy like Wacha. But then you also have Ottavino last year, Richards, Diekman… guys who are just soul crushing. I don’t know that the good outweighs the bad. Oh, come on, man. A few days ago, you were questioning why he didn't Daniel Vogelbach, a guy who came into this season with exactly .1 WAR since first hitting The Show in 2016. Now you're knocking him for spaghetti throwing? I think it's too early to judge Bloom. I think he wants to get the farm system producing a nice crop of talent annually and get out of some bad contracts. That will let him shop for more expensive spaghetti. It's easy to get frustrated and start throwing around whack-a-doodle comments when we're getting our asses handed to us by the MFY. But let's not act like they finished 61-101 last year and are out of it at the AS break this year.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Jul 17, 2022 15:10:08 GMT -5
I think a lot of posters here are acting like we lost this series 1-20 instead of 1-2. The team will re-group and play the second half. Let the chips fall where they may.
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Post by terriblehondo on Jul 17, 2022 15:10:29 GMT -5
I always thought Bobby was a better pitcher than hitter when he was in college. He might want to think about a change.
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Post by manfred on Jul 17, 2022 15:11:00 GMT -5
Maybe Casas would be up now. And if he were, how do we know he comes up raking? I don’t think one can point to his injury as a reason the Sox have disappointed. And power outage or no, neither X nor JDM is to blame. They have played well enough that if the Sox did not have multiple black holes, all would be fine. How is it people point to X, who is actually having a pretty good year, and no one wants to say, for example, that Verdugo is slugging .373 — but has a lower OBP than X’s BA? You cant be serious with this. They are having career worst Power numbers so far. You really think they are not partially responsible for why this team is where they are? I mean xander went more than a month without hitting a home run. You really think that didnt have any impact on our current record? My point is that X is their second best player statistically. You can say he isn’t as awesome as he might be, but there are guys on this team who are epically bad. The Dalbec/Franchy combo has to be the worst firstbase “man” I’ve ever seen. I’d put that ahead of X by a long way.
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Post by manfred on Jul 17, 2022 15:13:05 GMT -5
One of the things about Bloom’s spaghetti throwing is that, yes, it yields a guy like Wacha. But then you also have Ottavino last year, Richards, Diekman… guys who are just soul crushing. I don’t know that the good outweighs the bad. Oh, come on, man. A few days ago, you were questioning why he didn't Daniel Vogelbach, a guy who came into this season with exactly .1 WAR since first hitting The Show in 2016. Now you're knocking him for spaghetti throwing? I think it's too early to judge Bloom. I think he wants to get the farm system producing a nice crop of talent annually and get out of some bad contracts. That will let him shop for more expensive spaghetti. It's easy to get frustrated and start throwing about whack-a-doodle comments when we're getting our asses handed to us by the MFY. But let's not act like they finished 61-101 last year and are out of it at the AS break this year. But 61-101 is about the win % they have against the AL Easy this year. I wonder how many of us work in places that say “year four? Too early to evaluate this employee.”
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Post by incandenza on Jul 17, 2022 15:13:07 GMT -5
I still feel like letting Schwarber go is the "one that got away" for Chaim. Always a 90th percentile barrel percentage and exit velocity, all you needed to do was stash him for a year in the field before JDM left. His contract wasn't bad either. The sad thing with Chaim is that I think he's nailing 80% or more of the job, i t's just in the most important ones (roster construction, big name contracts) it's an incomplete grade at best. So, shows up to work on time, says all the right non-commital, banal, obtuse things politely to the media, brings doughnuts for everyone, does the perfunctory things well, had perhaps the best player in amateur baseball last year fall in his lap, but the stuff that really matters, he's...uh...um. Don't worry, folks. He's only your chief executive and "vision guy." Also: "Trust the process" was a phrase originated by the Philadelphia Seventy Sixers. And they are still losers. But, hey, great process. Roger Ebert, among others, had a good notion about the proper role of the critic: judge a movie based on what it's trying to do, not whether you particularly like the goal. (Maybe you don't like action bloackbusters, but you have to admit Speed is really good at accomplishing what such movies are trying to accomplish.)
What Bloom has tried to do is build a team that is consistently competitive, which means building a strong major league roster while simultaneously adding depth in the farm system. YMMV, but I think he's done a real good job of that, considering what an inherently tricky gambit that is. But if you think prospects aren't that important and the team should always be in go-for-it-now mode, or else that they should pursue a rebuild-and-teardown cycle like the Astros or Orioles, then you're going to be disappointed as long as he's the GM.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 17, 2022 15:15:26 GMT -5
You cant be serious with this. They are having career worst Power numbers so far. You really think they are not partially responsible for why this team is where they are? I mean xander went more than a month without hitting a home run. You really think that didnt have any impact on our current record? My point is that X is their second best player statistically. You can say he isn’t as awesome as he might be, but there are guys on this team who are epically bad. The Dalbec/Franchy combo has to be the worst firstbase “man” I’ve ever seen. I’d put that ahead of X by a long way. Ok. Fine. But here is the difference. Xander and JDM are being PAID more $$$ to be power hitters and put up good offensive numbers. They have not done that this year. If Franchy and dalbec had the same contract as those two you would have point. But they dont. And thats why they deserve more of the blame.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 17, 2022 15:15:33 GMT -5
Disagree that if they sell they’re certain to be in a rebuild for years. JDM, X, Eovaldi all might not be resigned anyways but that salary will go somewhere and maybe it can go somewhere as or more productive. Besides that they could trade them and resign some of them too.
That being said, I also agree that at this point I would still buy, play for the WC and try to make a run.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jul 17, 2022 15:16:09 GMT -5
I still feel like letting Schwarber go is the "one that got away" for Chaim. Always a 90th percentile barrel percentage and exit velocity, all you needed to do was stash him for a year in the field before JDM left. His contract wasn't bad either. The sad thing with Chaim is that I think he's nailing 80% or more of the job, it's just in the most important ones (roster construction, big name contracts) it's an incomplete grade at best. I wanted to bring back Schwarber too, but we're like 3-4 years away from knowing whether that really would have been a better investment than Story. So like you said, it's an incomplete grade - but I don't see how you can blame him for that.
I don't think with Schwarber it should have been an either/or with Story. The contract he signed was at JDM AAV so it would have been net zero impact to the CBT for 2023-2025. With hindsight we know the team is over the CBT for 2022, so why not go over a bit more to lock in 23-25? But now we're getting into hypotheticals around whether they had a goal to be at or near the luxury tax this year. If there was a target, that's an issue. If there wasn't, not signing Schwarber comes into question.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Jul 17, 2022 15:17:55 GMT -5
My point is that X is their second best player statistically. You can say he isn’t as awesome as he might be, but there are guys on this team who are epically bad. The Dalbec/Franchy combo has to be the worst firstbase “man” I’ve ever seen. I’d put that ahead of X by a long way. Ok. Fine. But here is the difference. Xander and JDM are being PAID more $$$ to be power hitters and put up good offensive numbers. They have not done that this year. If Franchy and dalbec had the same contract as those two you would have point. But they dont. And thats why they deserve more of the blame. They have matching 139 wRC+ figures. That’s really good, hope runs or no.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 17, 2022 15:20:00 GMT -5
Oh, come on, man. A few days ago, you were questioning why he didn't Daniel Vogelbach, a guy who came into this season with exactly .1 WAR since first hitting The Show in 2016. Now you're knocking him for spaghetti throwing? I think it's too early to judge Bloom. I think he wants to get the farm system producing a nice crop of talent annually and get out of some bad contracts. That will let him shop for more expensive spaghetti. It's easy to get frustrated and start throwing about whack-a-doodle comments when we're getting our asses handed to us by the MFY. But let's not act like they finished 61-101 last year and are out of it at the AS break this year. But 61-101 is about the win % they have against the AL Easy this year. I wonder how many of us work in places that say “year four? Too early to evaluate this employee.” He's in year three, but actually, next year is when I think it becomes fair to see this as pretty much his roster. Tons of money comes off the books and he'll have the chance to really shape the team according to his priorities for the first time.
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Post by manfred on Jul 17, 2022 15:20:35 GMT -5
So, shows up to work on time, says all the right non-commital, banal, obtuse things politely to the media, brings doughnuts for everyone, does the perfunctory things well, had perhaps the best player in amateur baseball last year fall in his lap, but the stuff that really matters, he's...uh...um. Don't worry, folks. He's only your chief executive and "vision guy." Also: "Trust the process" was a phrase originated by the Philadelphia Seventy Sixers. And they are still losers. But, hey, great process. Roger Ebert, among others, had a good notion about the proper role of the critic: judge a movie based on what it's trying to do, not whether you particularly like the goal. (Maybe you don't like action bloackbusters, but you have to admit Speed is really good at accomplishing what such movies are trying to accomplish.)
What Bloom has tried to do is build a team that is consistently competitive, which means building a strong major league roster while simultaneously adding depth in the farm system. YMMV, but I think he's done a real good job of that, considering what an inherently tricky gambit that is. But if you think prospects aren't that important and the team should always be in go-for-it-now mode, or else that they should pursue a rebuild-and-teardown cycle like the Astros or Orioles, then you're going to be disappointed as long as he's the GM.
Well, it seems that “strong roster” is getting pretty mixed reviews. Mayer was, indeed, a product of the Astros/Orioles plan, since they effectively threw 2020. I am very excited about Mayer. But much of that depth is meh. For all the movement, the system remains very top heavy (with most of the most exciting guys — besides Mayer — inherited). I get what you are saying, but I think even judging on what they are shooting for, the record is shaky. Hopefully they draft well today, maybe they have a good mix of selling and adding to accomplish both goals… but after four years, Bloom needs to get some real traction in the next year or two. And he is going to be faced with a potential talent drain that will be hard to make up for in a short time.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,646
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Post by cdj on Jul 17, 2022 15:22:51 GMT -5
They were two games from the WS last year ffs, you guys are acting like they’ve been bottom-feeding. A reality check is needed.
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Post by patford on Jul 17, 2022 15:23:02 GMT -5
The bright side is maybe people here will finally give up on Sale. Do people even look at the guy? He's a brittle twig. As critical as people on this forum tend to be it completely befuddles me as to why Sale is placed on a pedestal.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 17, 2022 15:23:41 GMT -5
Ok. Fine. But here is the difference. Xander and JDM are being PAID more $$$ to be power hitters and put up good offensive numbers. They have not done that this year. If Franchy and dalbec had the same contract as those two you would have point. But they dont. And thats why they deserve more of the blame. They have matching 139 wRC+ figures. That’s really good, hope runs or no. Check out JDM’s first half stats last year vs this year 18 Hr 62 RBI VS This year 9HR 38 RBI Xander 15 HR 51 RBI vs 7 37 That doesnt seem like an issue to you? They are severely underperforming compared to their first half numbers from last year.
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briam
Veteran
Posts: 1,180
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Post by briam on Jul 17, 2022 15:24:41 GMT -5
There’s no worse time then after getting your doors blown off in consecutive games to your bitter rival to talk big picture but the ship is starting to sail on Chaim for me. The next good bullpen he builds will be his first, we’ve seen no indication he will be retaining the (arguable) best SS in baseball and the fact Devers is not signed to an extension entering his walk year is a complete and total failure. This is probably more current fan frustration than rational observation but it’s year 3 and the team is in no way closer to becoming a “consistent contender”
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