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2023 40-Man Roster Discussion
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Post by scottysmalls on Mar 22, 2023 11:44:13 GMT -5
If another team is going to take Alfaro there's some value to the Red Sox in keeping him on the roster to maintain depth for a while longer (if McGuire got hurt and they lose Alfaro they'd have to acquire someone or put Hernandez back on the 40). May also depend on how badly they want to keep the guys on the current 40 there and if they want to put Tapia on the roster.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 23, 2023 11:13:42 GMT -5
My thoughts on the situation
- Ort seems like an easy DFA after a bad spring, with better than even odds of retaining him. Don't see any other easy ones right now.
- Adding Tapia does not seem like a no brainer to me. His track record ain't great, and then you have nobody with options to send down once Mondesi returns. If you go with Duran you can option him and not lose anybody. Tapia may consent to Worcester and if not, then Greg Allen also would be fine as the 7th OF.
- If Alfaro gets an offer elsewhere, seeya. It's okay to have be lacking in the third catcher department, it doesn't really matter that much.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 23, 2023 11:44:37 GMT -5
I mostly agree except for the "what do we do when everyone is healthy?" part. The option point is astute, but if they lose Tapia then, isn't that a wash with just losing him now? I can't see him sticking around after the spring he's had - someone will give him an MLB deal.
Plus there's the point of let's get to the place where everyone is healthy before worrying about that.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Mar 23, 2023 11:51:20 GMT -5
I mostly agree with everyone's assessment of the options but I would like to keep Tapia if at all possible and while I agree there is upside to Duran I don't think he has it between the ears when all is said and done to reach that upside. I've seen enough of Ort this spring, and while I'm rooting for Alfaro (dude is built like a brick s*ithouse) I won't be too heartbroken if he goes elsewhere, but I'd love for them to add him to the roster and then get something for him rather than just send him to the wind.
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Post by keninten on Mar 23, 2023 12:40:52 GMT -5
I don`t remember this many questions about who will make the team (26 + 40) as this year. Am I wrong?
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Post by greenmonster on Mar 23, 2023 13:16:14 GMT -5
I posted this in another thread but probably makes more sense here.......... Rhys Hoskins was just carted off the field with a seemingly serious injury (no official announcement yet). I wonder if Dombrowski might be interested in trading for Dalbec either to play 1B directly or to play 3B with Alec Bohm moving to 1B. I am not that familiar with the Phillies minor league system but perhaps Bloom could find an interesting return www.mlb.com/news/rhys-hoskins-suffers-left-knee-injury
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Post by scottysmalls on Mar 23, 2023 13:27:35 GMT -5
My thoughts on the situation - Ort seems like an easy DFA after a bad spring, with better than even odds of retaining him. Don't see any other easy ones right now. - Adding Tapia does not seem like a no brainer to me. His track record ain't great, and then you have nobody with options to send down once Mondesi returns. If you go with Duran you can option him and not lose anybody. Tapia may consent to Worcester and if not, then Greg Allen also would be fine as the 7th OF. - If Alfaro gets an offer elsewhere, seeya. It's okay to have be lacking in the third catcher department, it doesn't really matter that much. If you buy the first thing here, and I do, then I don't see why they wouldn't add one of Alfaro or Tapia if they'd either be taken by another team or the team prefers them to Wong/Duran. It's not like either of those guys is such a slam dunk that we must have them on the opening day roster.
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Post by jmei on Mar 23, 2023 13:38:38 GMT -5
I can't get too hot and bothered about Tapia vs. Duran for that last spot. Tapia is 29 and has 1,858 career MLB PAs (basically as many as Alex Verdugo), during which time he's been a back-of-the-bench type player (.277/.318/.392, 80 wRC+, 0.4 WAR/600). I'm not going to let 43 spring training PAs deceive me into thinking he's a breakout candidate or anything. On the other hand, I can't get too bothered about DFAing Ort for reasons already mentioned. So it's a big shrug emoji from me.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Mar 23, 2023 13:58:17 GMT -5
I can't get too hot and bothered about Tapia vs. Duran for that last spot. Tapia is 29 and has 1,858 career MLB PAs (basically as many as Alex Verdugo), during which time he's been a back-of-the-bench type player (.277/.318/.392, 80 wRC+, 0.4 WAR/600). I'm not going to let 43 spring training PAs deceive me into thinking he's a breakout candidate or anything. On the other hand, I can't get too bothered about DFAing Ort for reasons already mentioned. So it's a big shrug emoji from me. The swing factor for me (pun not intended) is that Duran would be best off (probably) getting consistent reps to work on his new mechanics, whereas Tapia is more or less expendable if he needs to be so therefore should be utilized now while he projects to have some value. If that costs Ort, so be it.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 23, 2023 14:18:33 GMT -5
I mostly agree except for the "what do we do when everyone is healthy?" part. The option point is astute, but if they lose Tapia then, isn't that a wash with just losing him now? That's a good point, although there is value in having a spot to go waiver wire shopping with.
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Post by backwardsk on Mar 23, 2023 19:33:24 GMT -5
I posted this in another thread but probably makes more sense here.......... Rhys Hoskins was just carted off the field with a seemingly serious injury (no official announcement yet). I wonder if Dombrowski might be interested in trading for Dalbec either to play 1B directly or to play 3B with Alec Bohm moving to 1B. I am not that familiar with the Phillies minor league system but perhaps Bloom could find an interesting return www.mlb.com/news/rhys-hoskins-suffers-left-knee-injuryTorn ACL for Hoskins. Probably done for the year. I think the possibility of a Dalbec trade is real if Dombrowski has any interest in Dalbec whatsoever. Who knows how he would evaluate Dalbec?
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Post by kingstephanos on Mar 23, 2023 21:42:59 GMT -5
I posted this in another thread but probably makes more sense here.......... Rhys Hoskins was just carted off the field with a seemingly serious injury (no official announcement yet). I wonder if Dombrowski might be interested in trading for Dalbec either to play 1B directly or to play 3B with Alec Bohm moving to 1B. I am not that familiar with the Phillies minor league system but perhaps Bloom could find an interesting return www.mlb.com/news/rhys-hoskins-suffers-left-knee-injuryTorn ACL for Hoskins. Probably done for the year. I think the possibility of a Dalbec trade is real if Dombrowski has any interest in Dalbec whatsoever. Who knows how he would evaluate Dalbec? To your point, Andrew Baker or Rickardo Perez would be nice gets from Philly if possible - moving Dalbec off of the 40-Man Roster.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Mar 24, 2023 6:08:55 GMT -5
Torn ACL for Hoskins. Probably done for the year. I think the possibility of a Dalbec trade is real if Dombrowski has any interest in Dalbec whatsoever. Who knows how he would evaluate Dalbec? To your point, Andrew Baker or Rickardo Perez would be nice gets from Philly if possible - moving Dalbec off of the 40-Man Roster. Phillies already have a LHH Dalbec in Darick Hall, who had 9 hrs and 44ks in 142 PAs last year, with little success vs. LHP. Might be a good platoon. On Tapia: because Duvall is 34 and should not play 30 games a month in CF, and Turner is the backup at 1b and 3b with Toshiba as the backup at DH, the LHH 5th OF could get some play over the year. We can't expect Tapia to break out, but it's good to have a 5th OF who can be expected to have an OPS over 700 and might do a little better, runs very well, and can play all three OF spots. Duran has more upside, but could easily put up another .600-640 OPS with misadventures in the OF. I'd say that having Tapia in Boston with Duran playing very day in AAA is well worth risking losing Ort. (Part of me wants to be done with both Dalbec and Duran.)
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Mar 24, 2023 6:40:58 GMT -5
To your point, Andrew Baker or Rickardo Perez would be nice gets from Philly if possible - moving Dalbec off of the 40-Man Roster. Phillies already have a LHH Dalbec in Darick Hall, who had 9 hrs and 44ks in 142 PAs last year, with little success vs. LHP. Might be a good platoon. On Tapia: because Duvall is 34 and should not play 30 games a month in CF, and Turner is the backup at 1b and 3b with Toshiba as the backup at DH, the LHH 5th OF could get some play over the year. We can't expect Tapia to break out, but it's good to have a 5th OF who can be expected to have an OPS over 700 and might do a little better, runs very well, and can play all three OF spots. Duran has more upside, but could easily put up another .600-640 OPS with misadventures in the OF. I'd say that having Tapia in Boston with Duran playing very day in AAA is well worth risking losing Ort.( Part of me wants to be done with both Dalbec and Duran.) I think this is where I am leaning on Duran/Tapia. I think as bench pieces right now they would be of similar value. However Duran is still young enough where I think he could still benefit from playing everyday down in AAA for the time being. I'd DFA Ort for Tapia and start Duran in AAA if it was up to me. I get what you are saying with Dalbec and Duran, they've both been disappointing, Duran more so than Dalbec to me. However they both have options remaining I believe and I still think there's a path for one or both of them to offer some decent value to the Sox. Dalbec can hit lefties and Duran has solid speed and who knows maybe his bat finally wakes up in the majors closer to what he's shown in the minors. While I wouldn't be sad to see them go in a trade of some sort I definitely don't want to just be giving them away at this point. It would not surprise me if one or both of them put together a few seasons of 1.5-2 WAR seasons at some point at their peak. Probably not ever going to be all-stars or perhaps not even full time caliber players but for their controllable years not bad bench pieces.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 24, 2023 7:50:21 GMT -5
theathletic.com/4342061/2023/03/24/minor-injuries-red-sox-spring/Chad Jennings says the team is not considering Walter/Murphy/Mata for the opening day roster, and so that means literally every other pitcher on the 40 would be needed to fill out the 13 spots on the main roster until some guys come off the IL. So Tapia would have to come at the expense of someone other than Ort.
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Post by jmei on Mar 24, 2023 9:45:38 GMT -5
theathletic.com/4342061/2023/03/24/minor-injuries-red-sox-spring/Chad Jennings says the team is not considering Walter/Murphy/Mata for the opening day roster, and so that means literally every other pitcher on the 40 would be needed to fill out the 13 spots on the main roster until some guys come off the IL. So Tapia would have to come at the expense of someone other than Ort. With Dalbec's recent moonlighting at middle infield, I wonder how secure Yu Chang's spot is.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 24, 2023 9:58:04 GMT -5
I dunno, they gave Chang 900k guaranteed not that long ago, and since then everything has gone pretty much according to plan among position players.
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Post by crossedsabres8 on Mar 24, 2023 10:28:51 GMT -5
Bases on the reporting of Joely's injury, it seems like sending him to the 60-day would make sense if you want to bring Tapia. Then you could cut Ort if you want another lefty in the pen.
I don't see the urgency in Alfaro, I think Hamilton is the 3rd catcher.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 24, 2023 11:50:35 GMT -5
I dunno, they gave Chang 900k guaranteed not that long ago, and since then everything has gone pretty much according to plan among position players. Keep in mind this isn't even 200k over the minimum anymore though. I don't think his spot is secure at all.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 24, 2023 12:00:42 GMT -5
Bases on the reporting of Joely's injury, it seems like sending him to the 60-day would make sense if you want to bring Tapia. Then you could cut Ort if you want another lefty in the pen. I don't see the urgency in Alfaro, I think Hamilton is the 3rd catcher. Said reporting says they won't 60-day him yet though.
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Post by notnickyorke on Mar 24, 2023 21:54:30 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesn't see a benefit to adding Alfaro and Tapia to the bench? See a lot of talk about opening up 40 man spots for them and I don't see how they improve the roster over players already there. Currently I see it playing out with a Wong, Dalbec, Chang (till Mondesi gets back), Refsnyder bench. I could see Duran making it over Dalbec if they wanted another lefty, Alfaro made some sense when it looked like Wong was not going to be ready. Now that Wong is looking good, what does Alfaro bring to the table that Dalbec doesn't? They both would play the role of sporadically playing against left handers. Alfaro was a little better then Dalbec last year, but career numbers still favor Dalbec, particularly against leftys. Neither is good defensively, but where is Alfaro going to play if Wong is on the roster. He only has 6 games at first base and then a few more in left field. The team doesn't really need another leftfield only type. What does Tapia bring to the table that Duran doesn't? He hasn't put above an above average offensive season. He is very bad defensively and is another left field only type. They both seem decent enough at stealing bases. We are talking about a guy with 578 career games that hasn't totaled 1 career BWar yet. It would make sense if he had a great glove you could put in center, but he doesn't. So why subtract from the teams limited luxury tax room? Why would you want Duran languishing on the bench when he should be playing every day at some level, whether its AAA, Boston, or somewhere else? It does him no development favors to make him a bench player. Tapia is who he is, which is a decent bench piece. He's the kind of guy who doesn't/shouldn't play regularly. On a postseason roster I could possibly see the argument of Duran over Tapia, but not during the regular season when Duran needs time every day to implement his swing changes and work on his defense. As Alfaro goes, it depends on Wong's health. If Wong is good to go, I dont think Alfaro makes it. If they have any doubts about Wong's health, then Alfaro gets the call. It would be nice for him to get regular playing time, but he already has almost 600 PAs in AAA with a 855 OPS. Is him demolishing AAA pitching going to change anyone's view of him at this point? Cordero looked like babe ruth in Worchester, still hasn't figured out the majors. I just don't see much left to prove in AAA offensively, he needs to produce in the majors. Although, it would be nice to see if he can cover right field adequately where his metrics are better (Small sample, but a guy can dream). I think there is something to be said for easing young players into the majors through part time roles. It seems to be universally said that the jump from the minors to the majors is as steep as its ever been right now. So why not ease a guy up in part time roles and expose him slowly while finding favorable matchups. Hopefully at some point, they produce there way into a full time role. I think most fans would view Dalbec differently if he had a proper backup leaving him less exposed the last few years. Maybe it isn't a coincidence that the best stretch of his career came when he was fighting a good lefty for playing time (Schwarber) and was often pinch hit for and used as a pinch hitter. A good role player might be both of their ceilings, so why not prep them for that?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 24, 2023 22:37:39 GMT -5
Why would you want Duran languishing on the bench when he should be playing every day at some level, whether its AAA, Boston, or somewhere else? It does him no development favors to make him a bench player. Tapia is who he is, which is a decent bench piece. He's the kind of guy who doesn't/shouldn't play regularly. On a postseason roster I could possibly see the argument of Duran over Tapia, but not during the regular season when Duran needs time every day to implement his swing changes and work on his defense. As Alfaro goes, it depends on Wong's health. If Wong is good to go, I dont think Alfaro makes it. If they have any doubts about Wong's health, then Alfaro gets the call. It would be nice for him to get regular playing time, but he already has almost 600 PAs in AAA with a 855 OPS. Is him demolishing AAA pitching going to change anyone's view of him at this point? Cordero looked like babe ruth in Worchester, still hasn't figured out the majors. I just don't see much left to prove in AAA offensively, he needs to produce in the majors. Although, it would be nice to see if he can cover right field adequately where his metrics are better (Small sample, but a guy can dream). I think there is something to be said for easing young players into the majors through part time roles. It seems to be universally said that the jump from the minors to the majors is as steep as its ever been right now. So why not ease a guy up in part time roles and expose him slowly while finding favorable matchups. Hopefully at some point, they produce there way into a full time role. I think most fans would view Dalbec differently if he had a proper backup leaving him less exposed the last few years. Maybe it isn't a coincidence that the best stretch of his career came when he was fighting a good lefty for playing time (Schwarber) and was often pinch hit for and used as a pinch hitter. A good role player might be both of their ceilings, so why not prep them for that? I think Duran needs to play every day. It's not that he needs to conquer AAA. Put it to you like this. I prefer Tapia on the bench and Duran playing every day in AAA. Say that any of the outfielders get injured and wind up on the IL, then I'd prefer Tapia on the bench and Duran playing every day, or at least against righties, in Boston. The bottom line is he needs to keep playing. Tapia can come off the bench to fill in for a day or 2 or PH or pinch run, but I dont think he needs every day ABs. He is what he is. Duran has a higher ceiling although I'm not sure he reaches it.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Mar 24, 2023 22:51:51 GMT -5
Torn ACL for Hoskins. Probably done for the year. I think the possibility of a Dalbec trade is real if Dombrowski has any interest in Dalbec whatsoever. Who knows how he would evaluate Dalbec? To your point, Andrew Baker or Rickardo Perez would be nice gets from Philly if possible - moving Dalbec off of the 40-Man Roster. I’m all on the trade Dalbec to the Phils for either pitcher, DFA Ort and adding Tapia & Alfaro train. Seems like the most logical moves unless I’m missing something…
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Mar 24, 2023 22:57:12 GMT -5
By the way, does anyone know what’s up with Yu Chang? I know he ran into some visa issues, but I thought he had already gotten to Ft. Myers?
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Post by patford on Mar 26, 2023 10:37:11 GMT -5
The consensus is the Red Sox have a middle of the pack farm system which only ranks as well as it does because the system has a handful of top 100 prospects. Outside the top ten the system is described as unimpressive with analysts uncertain as to whether prospects should be ranked where they are or maybe should not even be in the top 60. So how is it the Sox got drilled during the Rule 5 draft with the pitchers they lost sticking on MLB 26 man rosters and now anxiety over who to keep on the 40 man? Shouldn't those teams with amazing and deep farm systems have the 40 man rosters where MLB quality arms and position players are being cut because there is so much MLB ready or 40 man talent they can't keep it all?
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