SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
8/28-8/30 Red Sox vs. Astros Series Thread
manfred
Veteran
Posts: 11,418
Member is Online
|
Post by manfred on Aug 30, 2023 20:15:54 GMT -5
Another year. Another meaningless September. Frankly I realized the team wasn't going anywhere when I saw how they played against Toronto in early August. They could have seized a playoff spot but instead shriveled up. That was telling. I realized that not improving their defense and not improving their pitching meant they had no margin for error. I thought the Sox were a reasonably good team for most of the year but I was wrong.I was right about my concern in that after the Sox spent most of the year losing games against mediocre teams and standing strong against good teams that the trend would reverse and it has. The Sox have played well against bad teams and made it clear they're not as good as the obviously better teams. But after seeing what they've missed by not having a premier player like Betts on the team, the Astros came into Fenway and mauled the Sox who puked all over themselves. So it's the end of August and the Sox are out of the playoff chase, the generous playoff system that allows you to make the playoffs as the 5th best team in the league, which really isn't a tough bar to clear for a good team, which the Sox clearly are not. Given how promising the Sox looked for the first half of the season, I'd have to say it's getting old watching them miss the expanded playoffs year after year and finish near. 500 not really going anywhere. So they'll draft in the middle, finish in the middle, have a farm system that is around the middle depending upon how much you value having potential starting pitchers, and spending toward the middle and having a middling front office, I'd say that really doesn't get the job done. Its rough watching both the Sox and Patriots retreat from their wonderful golden age of championships to their current run of mediocrity. I watched the Sox not extend all out to keep their franchise player and I saw the Patriots let their GOAT get away and stop building around him. Darn shame. I hope there are much better sports days ahead. You will never quit your project of seeking to divine the essence of each Red Sox team, but existence precedes essence, they simply are what they do, and to this point they are a slightly above average team. If they get hot down the stretch like they were in July they could still end with a high-80s win total; if they go cold like they were in June they could finish around 80 wins.
Hey, good news by the way - the Mariners and Rangers now have a tougher remaining schedule than we do!
Serious question: how much do you think schedule strength matters at this point? I mean… do you think there is any real chance left?
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Aug 30, 2023 20:40:13 GMT -5
I'm wondering if my original estimate of 79 wins is possible after all. This could start a free fall to the end If they can go 10-18 the rest of the way then they can just as easily go 18-10, which means 87 wins is still on the table, which means they're not dead after all! And I could just as easily win the Powerball jackpot on Saturday night.
|
|
|
Post by oldfaithful2019 on Aug 30, 2023 20:43:36 GMT -5
Time for the scoreboard watching to be abandoned....
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,134
|
Post by cdj on Aug 30, 2023 20:44:06 GMT -5
Cuncel da saeson
Let’s just have fun from here on out boys! Friends and baseball! Good times!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2023 21:10:01 GMT -5
My rational brain: “The season is over - just enjoy Red Sox baseball before it’s gone for the year.”
My sports brain: “September 18th?”
|
|
manfred
Veteran
Posts: 11,418
Member is Online
|
Post by manfred on Aug 30, 2023 21:16:07 GMT -5
My rational brain: “The season is over - just enjoy Red Sox baseball before it’s gone for the year.” My sports brain: “September 18th?” This would be great if a) the Rangers were all we were chasing b) we’d actually won and gained ground.
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 30, 2023 21:22:39 GMT -5
It does take a mental shift to disengage from the pennant race and switch to watching because...it's baseball, and it's the Red Sox.
I do hope that they can make it at least interesting - focusing on playing the kids, trying some different things. I have to admit that the season was largely a pretty unpleasant slog - different parts of the team seeming to refuse to all fit together (hitting fine, pitching not....defense awful, letting down good pitching....good hitting, abysmal baserunning). I can't remember a season quite like this one where pretty much nothing came easy.
|
|
|
Post by waiverClaim on Aug 30, 2023 21:42:13 GMT -5
Quitters
Texas hosts Minn this weekend
|
|
keninten
Veteran
Posts: 673
Member is Online
|
Post by keninten on Aug 30, 2023 21:54:08 GMT -5
Soooo Jansen faces 8-9-1 and Llovera faces 2-3-4? Llovera is our bullpen ace in all seriousness watch us release him and have him turn into a stud in Tampa Or the Dodgers.
|
|
manfred
Veteran
Posts: 11,418
Member is Online
|
Post by manfred on Aug 30, 2023 21:57:51 GMT -5
Quitters Texas hosts Minn this weekend Big opportunity for the Blue Jays to make up ground.
|
|
keninten
Veteran
Posts: 673
Member is Online
|
Post by keninten on Aug 30, 2023 22:03:42 GMT -5
I'm wondering if my original estimate of 79 wins is possible after all. This could start a free fall to the end If they can go 10-18 the rest of the way then they can just as easily go 18-10, which means 87 wins is still on the table, which means they're not dead after all! That is the essence of this year. Getting sucked back in.
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 30, 2023 22:08:46 GMT -5
If they can go 10-18 the rest of the way then they can just as easily go 18-10, which means 87 wins is still on the table, which means they're not dead after all! That is the essence of this year. Getting sucked back in. We are 3-7 in our last 10, including 6 at home. "sucked" is the right word, but not "back in"
|
|
|
Post by cheers on Aug 30, 2023 22:10:19 GMT -5
I think I'm with the consensus here in closing the book on the 2023 Red Sox. I'm really hopeful about 2024 being better. From here on out, I want to see a steady diet of Rafaela, Abreu, Hamilton, Valdez, Urias, Walter and Murphy. Let's see what we've got.
I really thought this team would be significantly worse than their current record, so I think I'll just enjoy the rest of the ride. Finishing over.500 (and ahead of the MFY) is gravy.
Besides,I can easily root for the Orioles, Mariners and Braves in the playoffs without feeling like a whore.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 30, 2023 22:44:27 GMT -5
You will never quit your project of seeking to divine the essence of each Red Sox team, but existence precedes essence, they simply are what they do, and to this point they are a slightly above average team. If they get hot down the stretch like they were in July they could still end with a high-80s win total; if they go cold like they were in June they could finish around 80 wins.
Hey, good news by the way - the Mariners and Rangers now have a tougher remaining schedule than we do!
Serious question: how much do you think schedule strength matters at this point? I mean… do you think there is any real chance left? Oh I'd give them about a 4% chance.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 30, 2023 23:27:15 GMT -5
Another year. Another meaningless September. Frankly I realized the team wasn't going anywhere when I saw how they played against Toronto in early August. They could have seized a playoff spot but instead shriveled up. That was telling. I realized that not improving their defense and not improving their pitching meant they had no margin for error. I thought the Sox were a reasonably good team for most of the year but I was wrong.I was right about my concern in that after the Sox spent most of the year losing games against mediocre teams and standing strong against good teams that the trend would reverse and it has. The Sox have played well against bad teams and made it clear they're not as good as the obviously better teams. But after seeing what they've missed by not having a premier player like Betts on the team, the Astros came into Fenway and mauled the Sox who puked all over themselves. So it's the end of August and the Sox are out of the playoff chase, the generous playoff system that allows you to make the playoffs as the 5th best team in the league, which really isn't a tough bar to clear for a good team, which the Sox clearly are not. Given how promising the Sox looked for the first half of the season, I'd have to say it's getting old watching them miss the expanded playoffs year after year and finish near. 500 not really going anywhere. So they'll draft in the middle, finish in the middle, have a farm system that is around the middle depending upon how much you value having potential starting pitchers, and spending toward the middle and having a middling front office, I'd say that really doesn't get the job done. Its rough watching both the Sox and Patriots retreat from their wonderful golden age of championships to their current run of mediocrity. I watched the Sox not extend all out to keep their franchise player and I saw the Patriots let their GOAT get away and stop building around him. Darn shame. I hope there are much better sports days ahead. You will never quit your project of seeking to divine the essence of each Red Sox team, but existence precedes essence, they simply are what they do, and to this point they are a slightly above average team. If they get hot down the stretch like they were in July they could still end with a high-80s win total; if they go cold like they were in June they could finish around 80 wins. Hey, good news by the way - the Mariners and Rangers now have a tougher remaining schedule than we do!
Not really sure what you're even talking about, bringing divinity into it. As the season unfolded I started to see possibilities for the good if they could solve their lack of starting pitching and team defensive issues, but I dont see what's wrong with reconsidering ones position when the evidence mounts to the contrary. As the season goes along the team defines and redefines what they're all about. Beyond that I have no idea what you're talking about. As far as them blowing cold or heating up down the stretch, it's all kind of academic ar this point. What does it really matter if they finish at 79-83 or 87-75? They're not playing October baseball yet again, so who cares?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2023 0:03:38 GMT -5
Serious question: how much do you think schedule strength matters at this point? I mean… do you think there is any real chance left? Oh I'd give them about a 4% chance. I would not be absolutely shocked if the Sox had a good month in September that got them in the mid to high 80’s in wins. I would also not be shocked if Texas continued to burn away wins and Toronto continues their weird season. But having BOTH of those variables is unlikely… -So yeah, 4% odds or thereabout sounds right. I guess that’s the beauty of sports though - you never know when the impossible is going to happen.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 5,365
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Aug 31, 2023 8:45:44 GMT -5
Treat the next month as an audition for Rafaela, play him every day preferably in CF and see if he can handle ML pitching enough to be a #9 hitter out of the gate next year. I know a month isn't a great sample size but better than nothing.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,791
|
Post by mobaz on Aug 31, 2023 9:29:06 GMT -5
I don't see how Cora survives this. When the team should be hitting its stride and are finally pretty healthy they are shooting themselves in the foot too often. I think I'm ready to move on.
|
|
|
Post by soxfan06 on Aug 31, 2023 9:31:17 GMT -5
Hopefully we don't win another game this season, so we can get as high a draft pick as possible again.
(sad reality that this is where we are these days)
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 31, 2023 9:33:02 GMT -5
I don't see how Cora survives this. When the team should be hitting its stride and are finally pretty healthy they are shooting themselves in the foot too often. I think I'm ready to move on. I agree, if the team fades down the stretch again I think they let him go. If they end up turning it back on a little and have say 86+ wins I think he stays. It's probably unfair (and boy will the anti-Bloomers have words) but I think that's what happens. Also if they do let Bloom go whoever gets that job is gonna be the luckiest guy in baseball. Walking into a great situation where the last guy was despised.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,855
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Aug 31, 2023 9:33:36 GMT -5
I think I'm with the consensus here in closing the book on the 2023 Red Sox. I'm really hopeful about 2024 being better. From here on out, I want to see a steady diet of Rafaela, Abreu, Hamilton, Valdez, Urias, Walter and Murphy. Let's see what we've got. I really thought this team would be significantly worse than their current record, so I think I'll just enjoy the rest of the ride. Finishing over.500 (and ahead of the MFY) is gravy. Besides,I can easily root for the Orioles, Mariners and Braves in the playoffs without feeling like a whore.I'm rooting for the Phillies. Sports are more fun when Philly fans are miserable. Brewers, Mariners, or Twins for me. But I have close to zero faith any of them have a real chance. Honestly I wouldn’t mind if the Orioles won it either (I have family in MD and love Camden), but I just hate Angelos so much.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 31, 2023 9:40:14 GMT -5
I don't see how Cora survives this. When the team should be hitting its stride and are finally pretty healthy they are shooting themselves in the foot too often. I think I'm ready to move on. I agree, if the team fades down the stretch again I think they let him go. If they end up turning it back on a little and have say 86+ wins I think he stays. It's probably unfair (and boy will the anti-Bloomers have words) but I think that's what happens. Also if they do let Bloom go whoever gets that job is gonna be the luckiest guy in baseball. Walking into a great situation where the last guy was despised.In other words, the precise opposite of the situation Bloom walked into.
You know, it was like two weeks ago when the vibes were all about how you could see the long-term approach starting to pay dividends, with the young talent contributing to the major league team in a playoff chase, not to mention a couple of high farm system rankings, and a couple of offseason moves like Duvall and Yoshida looking pretty good.
Crashing out of contention will certainly change the vibes, but if the team ends at 84-85 wins as they project to I think that mood will fade; that's a winning record, after all, and the long-term approach does have them pointed in the right direction. I mean, fans will obviously continue to bitch and moan, but I think it would be extremely unlikely for ownership to fire Bloom in this scenario.
|
|
manfred
Veteran
Posts: 11,418
Member is Online
|
Post by manfred on Aug 31, 2023 9:55:35 GMT -5
I agree, if the team fades down the stretch again I think they let him go. If they end up turning it back on a little and have say 86+ wins I think he stays. It's probably unfair (and boy will the anti-Bloomers have words) but I think that's what happens. Also if they do let Bloom go whoever gets that job is gonna be the luckiest guy in baseball. Walking into a great situation where the last guy was despised.In other words, the precise opposite of the situation Bloom walked into.
You know, it was like two weeks ago when the vibes were all about how you could see the long-term approach starting to pay dividends, with the young talent contributing to the major league team in a playoff chase, not to mention a couple of high farm system rankings, and a couple of offseason moves like Duvall and Yoshida looking pretty good.
Crashing out of contention will certainly change the vibes, but if the team ends at 84-85 wins as they project to I think that mood will fade; that's a winning record, after all, and the long-term approach does have them pointed in the right direction. I mean, fans will obviously continue to bitch and moan, but I think it would be extremely unlikely for ownership to fire Bloom in this scenario.
I don’t see Bloom gone, but if someone came next year, that person would likely have to eat a few more mediocre years unless he a) spent huge on FAs and/or b) traded a lot of prospects. This is not a very good team, the two best players are old and FAs, and there are no immediate reinforcements on the horizon.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 31, 2023 9:56:28 GMT -5
Sports are more fun when Philly fans are miserable.
Brewers, Mariners, or Twins for me. But I have close to zero faith any of them have a real chance. Honestly I wouldn’t mind if the Orioles won it either (I have family in MD and love Camden), but I just hate Angelos so much. Ha, not that they need a lot of help being miserable. Just thinking as a Sox fan, the Phillies making the WS in consecutive years I think would be good for the Red Sox 2024 season regardless of who the coach, GM, etc. happens to be.Aside from that, my rooting interest is the Braves. Why?
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 31, 2023 10:00:12 GMT -5
In other words, the precise opposite of the situation Bloom walked into.
You know, it was like two weeks ago when the vibes were all about how you could see the long-term approach starting to pay dividends, with the young talent contributing to the major league team in a playoff chase, not to mention a couple of high farm system rankings, and a couple of offseason moves like Duvall and Yoshida looking pretty good.
Crashing out of contention will certainly change the vibes, but if the team ends at 84-85 wins as they project to I think that mood will fade; that's a winning record, after all, and the long-term approach does have them pointed in the right direction. I mean, fans will obviously continue to bitch and moan, but I think it would be extremely unlikely for ownership to fire Bloom in this scenario.
I don’t see Bloom gone, but if someone came next year, that person would likely have to eat a few more mediocre years unless he a) spent huge on FAs and/or b) traded a lot of prospects. This is not a very good team, the two best players are old and FAs, and there are no immediate reinforcements on the horizon. Don't agree at all, the team has the arrow pointing up, has a lot of cheap young talent, and they are set up to add more talented FAs regardless. Plus there are immediate improvements on the horizon (Rafaela, Mayer in a year or two, possibly Abreu, possibly Yorke) and improvements from guys already on the roster.
|
|
|