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2013 Celtics Offseason & Draft Thread
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2013 13:56:07 GMT -5
Well, it's going to be interesting.
As most now, the idea of Rivers/Garnett/Pierce going to LAC as part of a "blockbuster deal" went from Stephen A Smith's lunacy to a definite possibility (though Pierce's involvement would be rather complicated as I understand it).
According to various reports (if you need the links to verify what I'm typing, I question why you are interested in this particular thread - the reports are EVERYWHERE), the C's were holding out for a return of DeAndre Jordan, Eric Bledsoe and, at least, 1 draft pick in exchange for Garnett and Rivers (technically, it would be for Garnett with the understanding that if Boston got what they wanted, they'd let Rivers free and the Clips could sign him). The deal went nowhere bc the Clippers wanted to hold onto Bledsoe (some said bc they want to include him with Griffin in a deal for a signed Dwight Howard; others suggest he was in deals for Danny Granger or Arron Afflalo).
Today, accoring to Yahoo (Adrian Wojo) and ESPN (Stein and Shelborn), talks have picked up again with Boston relenting on Bledsoe if LAC would take back one of the Celtic's long-term contracts (Terry or Lee).
The final piece of all this is Pierce. I haven't heard/read anything to suggest that he'd be part of a trade. To allow him to join his compatriots, Boston would have to buyout his contract (for $5M). THEN, he'd have to pass through waivers (no lock) before being able to sign with Los Angeles.
Anyway, we could end up with Jordan and a pick (along with salary relief) in exchange for Doc, KG (and Pierce). IMO, while we'd certainly be worse than last year, we'd be better than what we'd be if Doc and KG just decided to walk away (which some suggested they were willing to do). The worst part of all of this is Pierce. I hate the idea of paying him $5 million to play for someone else without getting anything in return (gotta believe he'd have SOME value).
So it looks like we'll be kicking off the offseason with MAJOR intrigue, even if nothing comes of this. Fire away on this or any other offseason topic (including the draft) here.
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Post by redsox1534 on Jun 17, 2013 15:10:06 GMT -5
Its tough to say whats gonna happen with the draft based on not noing what is gonna happen with this trade. And even if the trade goes threw what happens with the players/picks acquired because Bledsoe or Rondo would likely be on there way out.
I love the idea of adding Bledsoe and Jordan. Jordan is really young and a athletic monster who has gotten better over the years. He was some one I really wanted to draft when he fell to the 2nd rd and Bledsoe is some one I loved since his senior year in HS. Jordan still has alot to improve in his game especially his offense and consistency but his defense and rebounding could be elite if he can get him self to a higher level the potentiel is there.
Yes losing these great veterans and rebuilding is tough. But it is time and rather now when the opportunity is right then later. Dont wanna pull a Pistons and start bringing a whole bunch of ok players to try an still compete to have put your self in a bigger whole and still be forced to re-build. Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully and Jordan would be good anuff to possibly make the the playoffs but whats the point? you arent winning anything with that team and there is no potential to do so with that team. Why float around being mediocre for a phew years then still be forced to get worse at some point. They should ( assuming a trade with the Clippers is made) try an tank the year and let the young kids on the roster play as much as possible. Get a high pick and free up a lot of money. With the combo of high pick, money and young players they could make a big trade, draft a potentiel star we could actually build around and sign a big FA. Id move Jeff Green if I could get a top lottery pick or package him in a deal for a star player who wants out. Green isnt a allstar player an lacks a true position he is a guy you dont build teams around or ever plays on a great team he doesnt play good D and id move him if I could get a good deal.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2013 15:30:16 GMT -5
I'd love Jordan more if he was still on his rookie contract. Now, I think he's overpaid. That being said, it's almost always the case that a guy starts losing value once he signs his FA contract (post-rookie deal).
Another note, on my comments about Pierce: I guess the idea would be to trade him to a team that's looking for more cap room. That team could then buy out PP (saving them $10M) and the Clips could sign him.
Lastly, if this is the route they are going, don't worry about trying to make subsequent deals to build a good roster. The next phase for the C's is asset accumulation. Having a good roster is secondary to the cause.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 18, 2013 12:26:45 GMT -5
Proposed deal called off as C's offer came down to Jordan and 2 1sts for KG and the waiving of Doc's non-compete (makes people feel better than saying he was actually traded). LAC was only willing to do one 1st pick (though some claim the amount they'd have to pay Doc and Jordan's $3M trade kicker that they'd have to pay wasn't helping).
If you believe reports (dangerous, I grant you) Boston made 3 offers (Bledsoe, Jordan and a pick; Jordan, a 1st rounder, and salary cap relief with LAC taking on one of Terry/Lee; and the most recent Jordan and 2 1st rounders). I only heard the 1 from LAC. If true, they are a pain to deal with (back and forth usually requires both back AND forth).
Now reports are that Doc is unsure whether or not he'll coach the Cs (instead sitting out the year). The drama continues.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 18, 2013 17:48:15 GMT -5
First off, the Clippers are incompetent. KG would be the 3rd or 2nd best player on that team (assuming CP3 comes back), while Doc is still one of the 3-5 best coaches in the game. That move would have made LAC an instant contender ... and they refused to do it over their backup point guard/a mediocre 1st rounder. I hope Paul walks and they never makes the playoffs again.
Second, how is Doc not getting skewered for being a douche two years into a five-year contract that HE signed? I have zero respect left for this clown.
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Post by jmei on Jun 18, 2013 18:05:24 GMT -5
I'm glad Danny held out instead of giving in to a terrible deal. I, personally, would have walked away the second it became clear that the Clippers weren't going to give up Bledsoe. I agree that the Clippers are stupid for walking away-- hard to think of a big man that complements Blake Griffin any better than KG, with his ability to defend, stretch the floor, and above-average passing.
I think Doc saw an opportunity and tried to run with it. I'd only resent him if he went into broadcasting rather than rededicate himself to the Celtics. Honestly, I'm more upset at Ainge for letting the whole thing get aired out in public rather than walking away the moment it became clear the Clippers weren't willing to give up any actual assets.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 18, 2013 19:16:31 GMT -5
Ainge deserves criticism for a lot of things, but this ain't one of 'em. Doc "committed" himself to the Celtics by signing a 5-year deal (which, at the time, seemed strangely long), and a couple years later he decides he doesn't feel like being here any more. That's completely on him.
I don't see how Doc can come back after this. If I'm a Celtic, I wouldn't respect him enough to play for the guy.
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Post by jmei on Jun 18, 2013 19:23:59 GMT -5
We don't know if Doc initiated discussions with LA or if Ainge realized Doc was one of his few assets and that KG would only waive his no-trade clause if Doc came along, and asked Doc whether he'd be open to moving to LA. I think it's the latter.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 18, 2013 19:31:20 GMT -5
Nah, it's not. Stephen A. Smith said awhile back that Doc wanted out before the rebuilding process got underway, so it's pretty safe to say he's the one who initiated it. (Stephen A is a moron, but he does have some pretty good sources.)
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Post by texs31 on Jun 19, 2013 0:35:01 GMT -5
I also think Doc would've kept to his deal (at least one more year) if Danny had said we are bringing everyone back and adding the 16th pick and a MLE veteran.
We don't know but it could be that Ainge is pulling the plug earlier than he had indicated to Doc when the deal was signed.
No anger towards Doc for me. That's a lot of money to pay a coach to lead a team that we now hope will be bad (bc they won't be a contender without KG and Pierce and being mediocre in the NBA is the worst).
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2013 16:25:46 GMT -5
Finally official. Doc named Head Coach and VP of B-ball Ops. C's get a future 1st rounder (supposedly 2015 unprotected - as if that matters).
Additional ugly wrinkle is that part of the agreement states that C's and Clippers can't exchange players until after 13-14 season. So that means 1 of the following:
1. He stays and plays on a team that is looking to rebuild
2. We try to convince him to accept a trade elsewhere (maybe Houston if they fail to get Howard??? - he is close with McHale)
3. He retires (let's hope $12M convinces him to play and maybe it'll be easier to convince him to waive his no-trade to more teams come February)
Other info to kick off the offseason
Pierce - Not sure I see a reasonable resolution to this either (other than him coming back). Supposedly, Boston has said they will work with him to trade him to a contender (or a team that agrees to not pick up his guarantee but that has to happen in the next week). Cleveland and Milwaukee have been mentioned (Cavs offering up 2 2nd rounders) but I wouldn't imagine they fit that qualification (and Boston thinks it can get a 1st)
Josh Smith - Sporting News is reporting (or re-iterating since we've been hearing of mutual interest for a while now) that Boston would like to do a sign-and-trade for him. I guess a deal would likely include a trade exception if a deal for Pierce can be made. I don't see it.
Hard to believe but it's looking like the major turnover could be Doc gone and a 1st round draft pick. Yikes.
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Post by jmei on Jun 25, 2013 16:46:57 GMT -5
My pet trade: KG to Minnesota for Derrick Williams and Luke Ridnour. I imagine KG would be amenable to going back to Minnesota, and they're a team on the playoff bubble who could really use a defensive-oriented big man. Also, with Rubio healthy, they don't need Ridnour (and he'd fit in as a backup PG in Boston) and despite the public support, they might cut bait on Williams (plus he's redundant with Love). Williams wouldn't be a great fit in Boston, either, but he still has solid upside and can split minutes with Sullinger at PF. Alternatively, maybe Minnesota would be amenable to a sign-and-trade with Pekovic for KG.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2013 16:54:54 GMT -5
Minnesota was the other team that I tried to see if something worked out with. I guess there is a chance (I thought I saw some report about them wanting him in some capacity AFTER he's done playing). In that scenario, I wouldn't mind seeing if we could move Williams in a subsequent trade. I'm apathetic on Ridnour as I believe he'd only be a "this year" piece and not part of the long-term plan (would rather see draft picks in the hopes of "hitting" on someone).
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 25, 2013 16:57:52 GMT -5
The Celtics should punt next season, it worked out when they did it for Duncan remember?, the draft Next year is loaded and if they are lucky could get their hands on Andrew Wiggins.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2013 17:09:49 GMT -5
Can't tell if you are serious given the Duncan reference. I'd have no problem getting value for any if our core pieces (accumulating young picks and players) and NOT trying to force success by overpaying the FAs not named Paul and Howard.
The byproduct of this would be a bad season and high lottery pick.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Jun 25, 2013 17:27:59 GMT -5
In my opinion, the Celtics NEED that guy. I don't know who it is or how they are going to get it but they need to locate and acquire the guy that will be the no-doubt cornerstone superstar of their franchise it isn't any of the good players that they have now Rondo (attitude), Green (passiveness), Sullinger (doesn't have the pure talent even though he is one of my favorite Celtics), Bradley (ditto as Sullinger). Although these are good players none of them are people who a successful franchise can be built around. None of them is a #1 option on offense and they would all fit on the team if there was a #1 guy on the team. The reason why I bring up all of these players is because they would all be great assets to get the next KG. Go Celts
P.S. I firmly believe that there are only 8-10 players in the NBA
that a franchise can be built around and they are not easy to find
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 25, 2013 17:34:32 GMT -5
I was joking with that. What you are saying is basically what I'm thinking, maybe the balls bounce your way aka Stern is in a good mood with you and you get a Wiggins, Smart, Aaron Gordon or Parker (though he may stay at Duke more than one year). If you are gonna rebuild do it from the ground up, not signing overrated players that won't make a difference.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Jun 25, 2013 17:52:48 GMT -5
Schroeder is a BEAST
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2013 17:53:45 GMT -5
I was joking with that. What you are saying is basically what I'm thinking, maybe the balls bounce your way aka Stern is in a good mood with you and you get a Wiggins, Smart, Aaron Gordon or Parker (though he may stay at Duke more than one year). If you are gonna rebuild do it from the ground up, not signing overrated players that won't make a difference. Agreed. |
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Post by jmei on Jun 25, 2013 18:24:13 GMT -5
Tanking holds little appeal to me. The so-called Thunder model is incredibly difficult to pull off-- you need the ping-pong balls to be in your favor and for the draft you get lucky in to have true superstars when your pick is up. Meanwhile, your team is garbage and its difficult for a coach to develop the culture of accountability necessary to play great defense or a well-functioning offense.
I much prefer the Rockets model-- continue to collect assets (young, affordable players with upside (even those with non-All-Star ceilings), draft picks (even non-lottery picks), expiring contracts, and cap space) and pick the right moments to cash in those assets for potential franchise players.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2013 18:29:06 GMT -5
I agree about the team tanking but I would argue that there is a difference between tanking and putting together a team that is comprised of young talent that needs development before it can start winning.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2013 18:34:28 GMT -5
I'd also say that part of Houstons strategy is cap space and I won't believe sn elite FA will come here until it hsppens.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 25, 2013 19:39:39 GMT -5
Any rumors on who the Celtics are looking at for the draft? I remember reading a while back that Danny Ainge went to Europe to check out the Greek kid of African decent.
The thing is that there are not many guys in FA worth spending the money for. Also you have to have a foundation through the draft to then be able to get other pieces around them. I know its a lottery but you have to have 1 great piece that comes through the draft to build your team around. Next year its not just one guy there seems to be the potential for plenty of guys good enough to be great pieces.
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Post by kman22 on Jun 25, 2013 19:58:44 GMT -5
My dream scenario for this offseason is as follows:
1) Trade Pierce for the best group of picks you can (ideally a 1st next year)
2) Trade KG for whatever you can get.
3) Try to sell of Lee and Terry.
4) Work sign and trades (or just sign) Josh Smith and Al Jefferson.
Rondo, Bradley, Smith, Green, Jefferson with Bass and Sullinger off the bench, and you draft the rest of your lineup over the next 3 years.
Likely, maybe not, but I'd be thrilled if it happened.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2013 21:07:40 GMT -5
I've read the like Larkin and Schroeder (PGs), Adams and Plumlee (PFs but I bet Adams is long gone). Antetokounmpo is a wild card who is all over the board. I've seen mocks that have Muhammad as their pick. Not a fan but he kinda fits the mold of former elite prospects whose shine wore off (Bradley and Sullinger).
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