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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 18, 2016 9:22:16 GMT -5
This trade is going to look much worse tomorrow when that scrub Pomeranz gets bombed. Can't wait. The Padres got their future ace. Very bright future for him. Never trade someone that a real pitcher like Pedro says is the next big thing.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 16, 2016 23:56:01 GMT -5
If Dombrowski has this magical mysterious power to evaluate talent that none of us mere mortals have (ala Jacob Turner, Andrew Miller, etc) - then why did he draft them? Didn't he use his magical powers when deciding who to draft? Hmmmm Wouldn't you think DD would have more info and a better understanding of players after seeing them in system for a few years? Just like Sox can predict Espinoza future a lot better than they currently can Groome. His past history shows he knows what's he's doing. In this case I think that shows that DD thinks Pomeranz is going to be good for next 2.5 years over what Espinoza will become. A lot can happen to an 18 year old pitcher before he is ready to help major league team. Even if Espinoza is good in 3 plus years, if Pomeranz is good for next 2.5 years like DD thinks this could be a rare win win trade like the Beckett Ramirez trade years back. Yep he knew what he was doing when he traded Randy Johnson too. I hate this deal more with every passing day. Pomeranz is going to get destroyed in the AL East.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 16, 2016 12:13:21 GMT -5
Speaking of disappointment drafts how about 2013? Meadows is now a top ten prospect. Any poster on this site could have made that pick. A huge blunder. But still better than DD.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 15, 2016 13:44:56 GMT -5
One of the Rays' pitchers-- Smyly or Odorizzi. Buy low on Gio Gonzalez. Sonny Gray, if you added another piece or two. Or you could just hang on to your incredibly gifted 18-year-old stud prospect and explore options a tier down (Hill, Hellickson, etc). I hesitate giving up Espinoza for Gray straight up 50/50 especially with his problems this year. But he's much better than this scrub, Pomeranz. Come on! He can't even lace Porcello's cleats. Dude is a product of the NL West.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 15, 2016 9:14:43 GMT -5
Yeah this trade is simply a result of the Red Sox inability to develop pitching in the last 5 years. So the answer of course is to trade the one pitching prospect that has the ability to become an ace. I hate it even more than I did last night if that's possible. Dumb Dave needs to go. Moncada and AB will be traded for Melvin Upton or a random middle reliever soon. The mainstream crowd will eat it up. Pink hats don't care if someone is detonating a great minor league system as long as Papi gets a playoff at bat. That's if he doesn't get popped for using before hand. He's 40 years old and producing like an MVP. He's either using or his numbers are about to fall off a cliff hard. Either way the Sox are about to waste a decade of dominance by trading an ace in the making.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 22:34:06 GMT -5
Saying this team should have stood pat if the prices were that high isn't legitimate? Absolutely what should have been done. You don't give away a future ace for a scrub. On what planet is Drew Pomeranz a scrub!? That's really the word you're gonna use to describe an All Star pitcher who got better after leaving Colorado, got better when his role was expanded and consistent, and even better when he added a cutter that ACTUAL MAJOR LEAGUE SCOUTS believe could sustain him as a top pitcher in the league? I bet you'd lose your mind if someone called Espinoza a scrub based on his pedestrian numbers this season. As for the standing pat? Baseball is a business, pal. There aren't 38,000 prospect humpers filling Fenway 81 days a year. People want to see the bleeding stop every 4th and 5th day in this rotation.....and they don't want to risk an actual scrub like Hellickson is enough of a band aid. By the time Espinoza is either established or disgraced, we'll probably have elected 3 different US Presidents....think about that. So having a good first half erases years of being a scrub? Espinoza is an elite talent. His ceiling is JoFer Kershaw Greinke level. Pomeranz is at his peak now.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 22:30:47 GMT -5
Saying this team should have stood pat if the prices were that high isn't legitimate? Absolutely what should have been done. You don't give away a future ace for a scrub. For the 500th time. He has the POTENTIAL. To be a future ace. ITS NOT A GUARANTEE. He could flame out like many other prospects. Or he could make it to the bigs as a back end starter. Or. He could be an ace. all these possibilities have an equal chance of happening. He has a better chance of being an ace than any of those possibilities. You do not trade an almost sure thing. I really miss Ben and Theo right now. This type of reckless trade is something Gorman would have done not Theo or Ben. Both of which won World Series more recent than DD as well.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 22:15:44 GMT -5
Then don't play. This team isn't winning the WS anyways. Why are they catering to Papi? Or the network. They gave up their future ace for a scrub. Someone who was a long reliever in March. Can't wait to see AB traded for Melvin Upton. It's helpful to stick to legitimate criticism instead of resorting to hyperobole. There are plenty of legitimate ways to criticize the trade. Saying this team should have stood pat if the prices were that high isn't legitimate? Absolutely what should have been done. You don't give away a future ace for a scrub.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 21:42:20 GMT -5
Rental prices were asking for the same as non rentals. Then don't play. This team isn't winning the WS anyways. Why are they catering to Papi? Or the network. They gave up their future ace for a scrub. Someone who was a long reliever in March. Can't wait to see AB traded for Melvin Upton.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 19:26:48 GMT -5
Note that if we hadn't blown our excess outfield depth on a relief pitcher we probably don't have to give up Espinoza for a starter. Agreed. It highlights the awful Kimbrel trade even more. Also, Margot is much more valuable currently than Pomeranz alone. Espinosa is more valuable than both.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 19:00:28 GMT -5
Preller is calling DD back right now making sure he doesn't want Melvin (don't call me Bossman) Upton in exchange for Benintendi. I'm legit scared of this scenario. Everything comes in 3's.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 18:53:24 GMT -5
Dave Dombrowski is bad at his job. You trade elite level prospects for elite level MLB players like Miguel Cabrera. You don't trade them for a swingman having a good few months, who maybe goes onto give them a Doug Fister like performance as a viable #3/4 guy. Yep. This right here. You don't get mad over a deal for an ace. But for a #4 #5 like Pomeranz?? Yep.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 18:52:28 GMT -5
Fleeced no question but don't blame this on Dave blame it on Clay and Erod if they were even league average this team would be up by 8 games right now ....Dave kept Benny ,Devers ,Moncada but we just lost a hell of a player because clay and Erod are dumpster fires ...Dave did what he had to do but it hurts bad . For a chance at making the playoffs you don't trade a potential #1 starter for a #4,starter. The worst part is that he and Wren will likely clean out more of the farm system to acquire a middle reliever type which still is nit going to move the needle much with respect to the Red Sox World Series chances which are quite slim. #4 or #5 he's a back end starter out of Petco. Will be on the DL or in the Pen by the end of the year. All while Espinosa dominates the rest of the year.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 18:22:46 GMT -5
I don't like this trade at all. Espinoza is too much to give up for a guy with pomeranz track record. With that being said some people on here are being way too hard on this trade. First off, while I don't trust Pomeranz leaving Petco & coming to the NL he is not a scrub. Also, people saying Espinoza is a guaranteed future ace when he is an 18 year old in low A are crazy. Nobody is a guarantee in low A. & suggesting he could be in the majors by September is asinine. He's not a scrub? Pull up his track record. This guy was ticketed for the bullpen in March. He was traded for two other scrubs this year. Preller is easily executive of the year thanks to fleecing DD not once but twice. Mark my words. Those two trades are just as big of a fleece as the Bagwell for Larry Anderson deal.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 18:09:11 GMT -5
Are you nuts? September this year? Have seen him or his numbers this year? I've read all his posts and I think he's trolling. How am I trolling? I'm pissed because I've watched DD rip apart a great minor league system. Awful.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 18:07:35 GMT -5
Great. They could have made moves for a lesser pitcher. This is more than what the flipping DBacks gave up for Shelby Miller. DD got hosed....AGAIN. I'll be stunned if Dumb Dave doesn't give up Moncada and AB for Tyson Ross at the deadline...just awful. Now I know why Detroit canned him. What good would that accomplish, help us not make the playoffs? Who the hell cares about mortgaging the future for one year? The Sox could have built a home grown powerhouse. Instead, now they mortgaged the future and robbed Peter to pay Paul.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 18:02:18 GMT -5
Despite where Kelly was ranked at the time of his trade, he never had the ceiling that Espinoza has. Having said that, I agree with you. Espinoza is an 18 year old hard thrower with a body that doesn't always live up to the rigors of being a starting pitcher. It hurts (bad) to give him up, and has the potential to be as bad as any trade in recent memory, but evrytime I look at the Free Agent list this winter I think something like this needed to be done. See Drew Pomeranz as the #5 pick in the draft, ahead of Harvey and Sale. Todd Van Poppel was a top pick too. What's your point? And that diva Groome can't even hold Espinosa's jock.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 17:58:20 GMT -5
Espinoza will be in the majors before 2018. I don't think so He's just as good of a prospect as JoFer was and more advanced in terms of where he's pitching. He will be up next year if not September this year. The guy is a lock solid Ace. And DD traded THAT for this scrub! Pomeranz is an absolute SCRUB of the highest order. I'm telling you he's at Porcello's level. Would you trade a future ace for Rick Flipping Porcello?!!! Hell no.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 17:55:59 GMT -5
Jump off a bridge if you hate it so much...I'm happy I won't ever have to see Sean O'Sullivan pitch another inning in Boston. Great. They could have made moves for a lesser pitcher. This is more than what the flipping DBacks gave up for Shelby Miller. DD got hosed....AGAIN. I'll be stunned if Dumb Dave doesn't give up Moncada and AB for Tyson Ross at the deadline...just awful. Now I know why Detroit canned him.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 17:43:21 GMT -5
I have a feeling DDo is thinking he just traded for the next Arrieta just a little bit before people realize he's for real. That's exactly my read as well. It's a huge gamble, though-- even if Dombrowski is right and Pomeranz is a legit #2, he paid a price commensurate with what you'd give up for a guy who you're sure is a legit #2 and will stay healthy, but Pomeranz comes with a lot of risk, and the trade package doesn't reflect that risk. All due respect. Even Stevie Wonder can see this guy is a product of Petco. He's about to hit an innings wall. If he wasn't in Petco the dude would be a scrub. He sucks. Porcello is better honestly and that isn't saying much. We gave up our ace in 2019. He gave up a future all star outfielder plus other pieces to get fleeced by Preller. We have just built up the Padres for a nice 2019 playoff run. Freaking awesome. This guy is the Billy King of MLB GMs.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 17:40:49 GMT -5
Worst GM in Sox history. Can we please bring Ben back?
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 17:39:09 GMT -5
God this is horrible. I stomached Margot who is a sure fire all star. Now I have to deal with our best pitching prospect BY Far traded for a guy who was a scrub to start the year! He's not a young guy compared to what we should have targeted. Such an awful overpayment. Henry should step in and fire DD now before the trade papers are signed. Worst deal the Sox have made since the Bagwell trade.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 7, 2016 21:56:27 GMT -5
The Red Sox are unlikely to get a guy with this talent level and potential with the 13th pick in 2017. Why do you say that? He could end up falling to the same spot again and the Sox would be able to get him at a better price. Next year is a deep draft. Plus with the bonus pool it's very advantageous of a team like Boston to punt the pick and use the money on other tough signs.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 7, 2016 18:32:23 GMT -5
I'm happy that it looks like this diva isn't going to sign. It gives the Sox an extra pick next year. Punt the pick and use the rest to take care of everyone else. Go back to him and offer slot and when he doesn't take it...oh well. The Sox will get a top pick in a loaded class and one at the back of the draft as well. Punt away.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jun 10, 2016 15:03:36 GMT -5
The same Keith Law had him as the second best player in this draft, said most of the rumors surrounding him were false, and said again today he would've drafted him top 3 even with the inside knowledge he has about his "character issues". In what other industry can a 17-year-old be paid millions of dollars more on the basis of potential than actual accomplishment? No matter the individual, this is a process fraught with risk (and I'm not sure it says much positive about our society and our values). I love this line of thinking. Sox fans who hump prospects all day complain that the team has no top end talent in the farm system that could turn into an ace aside from Espinoza. Sox draft someone at 17 years old with maturity issues and people complain. I mean this was a top talent that should never have been there at 12. Who would you have drafted? As for financials lets face it, sports falls under the entertainment industry. Tom Cruise used to make 40 million for one movie. Its the sliding scale of the entertainment industry. Top draft picks will always get millions of dollars up front. Not sure where you're going with this. Also, on another note. The logic of punting a pick to get another one in a "stronger" draft the following year seems to be a topic EVERY YEAR. What does that tell you?
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