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Post by tonyc on Jul 31, 2016 14:37:10 GMT -5
Doug Griffin was one of the more underrated Redsox players due to circumstances. After Tony C had his great 36 homer season in 1970, despite still not good vision in the beaned eye the Sox broke his heart and traded him to California for some good pieces. Unfortunately all 3 main players had various injuries ending their effectiveness: Tony's vision got worse and he failed and quit Cali after '71. He had been offered the lead role for The Godfather, before Pacino, but declined saying his heart was still in Baseball. Ken Tatum was a young reliever who had an unbelievable year and then a solid one for the Angels must've got hurt, because he did nothing in Boston. Doug Griffin meanwhile was a solid fielding .244 rookie in '71, then showed great promise in '72- hit .260 and won the gold glove. He was one of the best fielders at the position in sox history. I went to a game in Yankee stadium and my friends were blown away by his hands. Reggie Smith mentioned that Doug's shifts were so precise for hitters that he followed him in the outfield. A coach said that Rick Burleson made himself into a great fielder by brutal work, but was not born with the amazing soft hands Doug had. Consider he was young and it was a very skewed pitching era, and he would've only gotten better, but alas the beaning and other injuries after that limited his effectiveness and ended his career, necessitating the acquisition of the veteran Denny Doyle for the '75 team, and Jerry Remy afterwards. I LOVED that '72 team (that finished 1/2 game out due to the unequal schedule because of a brief strike.) That one and the '75 were my favorites ever. RIP Doug Griffin. Lastly, Nolan was interviewed after Doug faced him again post beaning and raved about the guts he showed, aggressively digging in there.
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Post by tonyc on Jul 21, 2016 18:36:47 GMT -5
Been to about 10 ballparks around the country, Wrigley (and Fenway) just once each. Wrigley is my favorite park and I found the fans more unconditionally supporting their team, irrespective of standing than any. Sorry Sox fans, but during this golden era we've morphed more than halfway toward the spoiled Yankee fans I grew up with in that regard. Given their loyalty, and how long it's been, and Theo there, as a baseball fan I root for the Cubs to finally do it, there's even (incredibly) ambivalence if the sox face them.
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Post by tonyc on Jul 16, 2016 12:55:37 GMT -5
Like a number of us upon further reflection I don't like the deal but don't hate it as much now. I agree with Jmei that DD's selling too much of the farm for the valuation received and was more disturbed by this than Kimbrel. And I too would have preferred a Hellickson deal. However, a pitcher with less risk than Pomeranz would have taken more of our prospects and Eric has mentioned some comforting inside stats about him. Most importantly this period represents a window not only with the killer B's controlled, but in a potentially significant way not yet mentioned. The MFY have been out of the picture but that will very much change when free of their Texeira, Rodriguez and Beltran contracts. This will coincide with massive free agent opportunities- Harper, Kershaw, etc. They are drafting better and will have a firesale shortly. And the new rules are division winner almost takes all. I hope I'm wrong here, but they won't be dormant in the longer term.
Finally, I'm hopeful that with Kopech and Devers not far from AA, they'll enter a "hands off" phase with DD, and he doesn't mess with our new top 5 but I guess I thought that applied with AE too. I'm still pulling like crazy for AE for both him and to give DD a bit of a lesson, but let's win a WS in the next three years and make it a win-win. Between thinking that we're still in great shape now and in the future- and a good workout hike I slept well last night.
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Post by tonyc on Jul 15, 2016 11:49:51 GMT -5
This transaction and the many Karmic ripples is complex and potentially historic, therefore is best viewed via a model of dichotomies, or simultaneous shades of gray. Firstly, the Kimbrel trade on a simple value scale for all those prospects was indeed more of a selloff than this one. Yet no prospect was as high end as Espinoza, and in and of itself it does not risk a Bagwell type potential rape that this one does. So on the one hand, I was actually more OK with Kimbrel's acquisition than this one, especially given the greatly increased risk of failure at a crying position of need by the alternatives which could have taken Boston out of the race (Darren Oday ie). On the other hand, it's now quite possible that one of those less prospect costly alternatives may have saved the Sox from losing Espinoza.
Some dichotomies on the Espinoza trade itself: Dombrowski likes to trade from areas of surplus and no doubt felt more comfortable in parting with him with the physically stronger Groome and Kopech in place, whom he possibly preferred to Anderson as he chose Benintendi over Margot. On the other hand, as has been pointed out here, that's a fallacy as there is room to have 3 number ones. In that sense, despite Devers' higher floor to Espinoza, he'd represent more of a true surplus with Shaw, Moncada, and Chavis in the picture. The most significant dichotomy is the present vs. future value of this deal. Presently other than Wright and Porcello the Sox rotation is full of holes and under performance, which leave it vulnerable not just this year but in the next several with a thin pitching market for replenishment. Simultaneously, the lineup the next several years, and Ortiz this year represents a few, rare, opportunities at championship during Pomeranz years of control. However, in several years post Papi, in the event that Bogaerts and or Betts are too expensive to retain, the best bet at cost effective world series possibilities would have been building around three potential aces.
Bottom line dichotomy- Dombrowski will, as first shown in the Kimbrel trade, use more of a Yankees approach during their late nineties championship reign; they outspent the competition for player retention and new free agents and trading for stars. But yes they lost young players who bloomed elsewhere, such as Jay Buhner. On the one hand this worked for them and a modified version might work for us- the now of every season is important. On the other hand, overdoing that results in the downside issues of his legacy in Detroit. Certainly we will "lose" individual deals from a valuation perspective, but will be given a shot each year- unless it's done to such an extant that the well runs dry. Several asides- let's not blame Buchholtz, or any other pitchers for this. His 2013 World Series game 4 performance while injured did not retain Schilling's notoriety, but was a key turning point. Let's actually pull for Espinoza, not just ethically, but to give Dombrowski some of Gorman's perspective in living with the legacy of that type of move in Boston. Interesting that both deals involved "Anderson."
A different dichotomy on the overall emotions of this massive shift. I was having a wonderful day, dreaming on a trio of aces with the story of Koppech's 105, the impending Groome signing, and even a new ray of hope for the Bruins with a better possibility at Jimmy Vesey (if Sweeney had the autonomy of Dombrowski, he would not have created such directional confusion). It all came crashing down with the transaction and the collective angst of these posts with my sleep paying the price. There had been a pleasant fantasy escape from the real world- we lived in a baseball transaction world, validated in minuscule detail by this site, of a good secure future, well managed. This was suddenly invaded by the realities of the real world- short term money and politics invariably cause rash long term decisions. While we clarify the finer points here, and share some angst too, let's remember that this is still a hobby, a pastime, and surrender to WHAT IS in our minds and hearts so that we can still enjoy each moment now, and in the "future."
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Post by tonyc on Jul 14, 2016 10:04:35 GMT -5
My hope had been for a brilliant start last night and one more before trades go down to make it increasingly likely that he will be off limits.
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Post by tonyc on Jul 12, 2016 18:24:57 GMT -5
Believe it or not in this particular trade deadline I'd rather trade any of the big 5 other than Moncada than Kopech: Benintendi, and Devers have both established more trade value as of now so M.K. would be, I think, sold the lowest right now. And as much as I love Espinoza, he's not yet as advanced and his frame represents more longterm risk, although a posting today indicated he may be 6'!" 180, and if he grows to be say 6"2" 200 that looks better. I care a lot more about the next 5-10 years than this one and don't want any of them traded (and will either be pissed or breathe easier 8/1).
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Post by tonyc on Jul 11, 2016 20:59:17 GMT -5
Actually the biggest question will be whether Dombrowski's love of power arms will be enough to hold his trigger finger and ignore the pull of every (idiot) writer except Spier and the fans (and perhaps the front office) in their wake.
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Post by tonyc on Jul 11, 2016 0:24:14 GMT -5
I've had two beautiful Colorado hikes this weekend obsessing over Kopech's last outing thinking he deserves his own thread. I'm hoping, perhaps more than anyone but Moncada he is not traded, as his trade value relative to worth right now is lower than the other top 4. This last start was his first with his new physique, adding a good 25 lbs of muscle, and likely resulted in his incredible sitting velocity. Does this build and late game velocity remind you of another righthanded sox starter about 30 years ago? Rocket did sit 97-8 late, but the highest I remember him hitting was 99 as a Yank against the Mets.
It's early still, and the sample size is small but given his physique and toying with upper A hitters would it be sacrilege to speculate whether he will actually end up with the better and longer career than Espinoza? Also, if this continues does he go to AA before the season ends?
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Post by tonyc on Jul 6, 2016 10:21:28 GMT -5
Thanks Telson for a statistical backing for what I personally felt was a rare misstatement by Jmei-not an incorrect one, but overly shaded toward the negative. It's still a bit early to dismiss the possibility of backend starter if he continues to make adjustments. And regarding his conversion to hitting, just look at how the back-end options have vanished this year. While I've wondered if there's more possibility of allowing two way prospects to continue some dual play, Trey has been so dicey that I wouldn't mess with that.
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Post by tonyc on Jul 5, 2016 12:18:41 GMT -5
Sox Champs, indeed Montreal was star crossed. I had close family there and spent over 25 entire Summer's growing up in that lovely city. The French people so embraced them they were truly a part of the culture, and much loved was their early announcer who over enunciated names with a French flair, particularly John Boccabella. Despite their wonderful minor league system, unable to pay the going rate, they were victimized by the Yankees of the world and had their stars raped and attendance suffered. None of us liked the 1976 large impersonal stadium as opposed to the charming Jarry Park which had people diving in the swimming pool competing for home run balls. A key blow was when they in 94 had the best team, and wouldn't you know it, the baseball strike and no postseason that year! My Montreal cousin and I share a soft and sad spot thinking back to that sweet franchise, RIP Expos- 1969-2003.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 30, 2016 16:42:12 GMT -5
As a balm to some of the vibes on this issue, I again implore everyone to see the wonderful film "Sugar" about what it's really like for impoverished Latin players to make the culture leap of living with a host family in a conservative farm town while playing minor league ball. My favorite scene was toward the end when players from different countries introduced themselves and played in a casual game and all accepted each other as brothers.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 21, 2016 12:06:19 GMT -5
Telson good point about Herb Washingston. For those who weren't around, in 1975 Charles Finley, Oakland's creative owner hired a world class sprinter to be a designated pinch runner, who hadn't played baseball since high school. He did get caught a bunch, but stole bases. My buddy and I thought if given a chance if he trained well with coaches on pitchers moves he may have become a weapon, however other players were derisive about him not being a real player and the experiment ended within a season or so. We watched him early on, and he was full speed by his second step and was sliding into second as the catchers throw was still going over the mound!
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Post by tonyc on Jun 20, 2016 12:56:25 GMT -5
I believe Howard's 1968 Baseball card listed him at 6'7" 275. Imagine him in Japan? A friend saw a picture of him towering over the team. An ex boyfriend of someone I dated was similarly sized and during his visit to Japan he was annoyed that he was frequently photographed.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 20, 2016 10:41:19 GMT -5
Eric so Brett threw 100? Didn't know that. He had a solid pitching career with the Pirates, and I remember him hitting a bunch of homers as a pitcher. The X-Ray supervisor where I did my clinicals in N.Y. Was also a baseball scout and had just dined with Frankie Rodriguez so of course we chatted about whether to make him a pitcher. He favored that, citing the average speed of a shortstop, with Frankie falling a bit short, though of course he had the arm and was a good fielder anyway. With real talented two way players, I know it's super competitive today and there are benefits to focusing, but why not let them continue with both and allow things to play out further, similarly to Babe Ruth at first?
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Post by tonyc on Jun 18, 2016 10:48:35 GMT -5
It just occurred to me that perhaps another reason teams don't utilize this strategy is that it decreases the leverage with agents. Jim Callis suggested that the Redsox will sign their other players and leave a target amount over to offer Groome on a take it or leave it basis. Once someone opens that door, you may lose this ability.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 18, 2016 10:35:05 GMT -5
It's way premature to consider Light, Johnson and Ball misses, and early on Owens and Swihart is a likely success. Even though the strategy works for second and later supplementation, giving up two top picks seems a heavy penalty. The one favorable aspect of this strategy is if we are to assume excellent finishes for the sox these next two years
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Post by tonyc on Jun 18, 2016 0:57:05 GMT -5
Brendan which artist painted your avatar? I like good abstract expressionism.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 17, 2016 10:47:56 GMT -5
Agents have been called cockroaches with cell phones.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 16, 2016 15:17:59 GMT -5
Beautiful insight Mandelbro. A reason this site is great. I was starting to sicken that Groome was going to out-Machiavelli Lester and Ellsbury- who I loved as player but didn't like his greed, yet he is still a great asset to the Sox as the Yanks Panda.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 15, 2016 11:26:14 GMT -5
Re: Dalbec, and in general, why don't we see more two way players developed that way through the minor leagues and (if they make it) into the majors?
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Post by tonyc on Jun 15, 2016 10:43:25 GMT -5
Eric nice that your group enjoys Scifi. It's so ironic to me that because of the lattitude for creative writing this genre has the potential to be the most gratifying, yet most often breaks down into nonstop chase scenes and battles which don't capture the wonder of discovery as in the 1960 Time Machine. I remember, as many, loving Contact, and Minority Report as well, but not much for quite a while. Gattaca was enjoyable and Her and Source Code as well, and it seems there is a bit more hope lately. Do you suppose the others simply capitulate to the formula they think will make money by pleasing teen boys?
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Post by tonyc on Jun 14, 2016 9:34:08 GMT -5
I agree as well, he'll sign last moment. Groome being projected as approximately top 4 in our system reflects so well on where we're at, and also displays how much weight is given to how far he must go to get to the big leagues,despite ceiling comparisons to Kershaw. Forgive me, but a last aside on Duquette- the biggest correct call he made- and came within a hair of executing would have changed Boston and the Yanks standings. He allocated the money Vaugn wanted to a longterm contract for Bernie Williams and that was set to go forward, as Joe Torre told his ownership he could deal with the explosive Albert Belle, set to sign with N.Y. Then a third team, Baltimore I think, put in a last moment big bid for Belle, who ended up being a mess of a contract, prompting N.Y.to suddenly sign Bernie instead and left Boston without a musical chair.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 13, 2016 18:01:04 GMT -5
John Silver is exactly right. Redsox ownership during Duquette's time had a clear budget (and the Yankees did not) which was much tighter than Epstein's other than the end when he signed Manny. I won't argue he was better than Epstein, but he was quite good. Yes he had real personality holes that led to some of the above botches, and a poorer opinion about him in the press and players than his actual performance.. Epstein's personality and organization was first class (though I still laugh at his slip of depicting Jonathan Paplebon as "not exactly a Rhode's scholar.") But with his limited budget he plucked a number of players from the scrap heap for nothing that hit big- particularly the winter of 94-5, players like Tim Wakefield, Troy Oleary, that 16 game winning pitcher (forgot name). Made the Pedro and Varitek trades, locked up Pedro and Normar and passed on the disastrous Mo Vaughn contract. Lastly, he didn't make many major blunders of selling low on top prospects for winning now- I thought Frankie Rodriguez, who had a high 90's fastball would be one, but he fizzled. And boy if not for that tragic Andy Yount injury his success and legacy would have been different. This was a wonderful reprieve from Lou Gorman, who despite personal skills had that as an Achilles heel. The day he replaced Gorman I jumped for joy and had faith they'd finally go all the way one day!
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Post by tonyc on May 22, 2016 15:14:07 GMT -5
Great post as always Eric. The height of my rock n roll hof frustration was having Kiss just make it in and Yes being excluded. It takes me months to learn to play a yes song on guitar. Yes checked all the boxes- individually as talented musicians as any band had, amazingly complex compositions with great tempo and genre changes, melodies that could make me cry with their beauty- and a tremendously long career and right in the vanguard of classic rock for a legacy. And despite a truly unique sound, they were able to bring audiences along for the ride- they at one point outsold every band ever at Madison square garden.
The frustration with music runs personally too. I just mastered my first CD hiring some top session players (7 time Grammy nominee Kim Stone is on bass). I sing with a deep country accent on one song, sing in a David Bowie accent in another two, rap in a ghetto accent in another, and a high tenor in yet another. There's funk, pop, rock, country, jazz and ballads written aoubt all types of topics from love, spiritual, environmental to a football song. The musicians and engineers were blown away, yet I'm too old and work too hard to tour and will not put in the nonstop work on social media needed to get on the map. The only very long shot hope seems to be to pitch songs to publishers and hope to recoup just a fraction of the expenses of tracking and mastering at high quality studios.
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Post by tonyc on May 22, 2016 12:41:20 GMT -5
In the current snapshot, yesterday was the most positive day of the season for the rotation, perhaps more so than the David Price mechanical correction between the news on Eduardo's session/brace and Joe Kelly's game. I've always been one of the few who've liked Kelly, but he needed to exploit his great stuff. Last year he learned to sequence. Now, via the WEEI story, he's strengthened the right arm and is getting more spin- I noticed more misses on his fastball than I've ever seen. Why wasn't he getting them before? Certainly the velocity was there, and Eric has charted excellent movement as well. The lack of good sequencing would be most likely, followed possibly by the lack of plane given his short stature for a starter. Perhaps lastly just a theory, a lack of deception. Although not a direct correlation, it seems that deception occurs more easily with tall pitchers, think Owens, the injured Juan Pena, or further back Jim Kern. A shorter one requires some unusual delivery like Juan Marichal or Luis Tiant.
This rotation snapshot will of course be vulnerable to consistency and injury issues in the long season, but I'm hopeful we'll get through henceforth without losing significant prospects- great day!
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